Mosin double stamp

can someone explain me why case is stamped by two different producers?
ф P II 91 and K 8 ?

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This is no 2nd manufacturer but a laterr applied marking for some purpose.

Nice and early hs!

So the same producer stamped it again with other marks? Maybe case was elaborated by other manufacturer? K stands for Kolchugino in Vladimir

Hard to tell for me.

May we see the side view? I never even heard of Кольчугино. All I remember about Vladimir (the city) is multitudes of monasteries and churches.
It is possible that “Ф” is not a letter but a “8” with a strike through it.


About Kolchugino:
"Only the factory in Tula produced brass for husk production. Plants in St. Petersburg and Lugansk bought brass at Rozenkranc and Franko-Russkie in St. Petersburg, Kolchuginsky in the governor’s of Vladimir and in Tula. In 1902, a brass foundry was started at the ammunition plant in St. Petersburg, which in 1904 secured two thirds of its needs. Therefore, on cases up to 1914 there was an additional indication of brass suppliers:
Ф - The Franco-Russian Society, Saint Petersburg (former Bierda plant)
Г - Gillenszmidt’s commercial house, Tula
Ч - Copper foundry of the Czikinis brothers, the area of ​​Gatcziński in the Leningrad region (demolished in 1917).
К - Kolchugino plant, Vladimir oblast
P - plant Rozienkranc, Saint Petersburg (from November 7, 1922 «Ленинградский завод« Красный выборжец ».)
T - Gillenszmidt’s plant, Tula (from 1905 this sign appears in exchange Г, probably due to the transfer of the plant to several shareholders - the “commercial house of von Gillenszmidt, Standierszeld and Szekarazin”)
П - brass foundry, Saint Petersburg
Б - Bierda plant
O - Osipowa plant
КО - probably the Komiełowa plant
З - unknown marking (but it is possible that in combination with П -
petersburg factory by analogy with tulski)

ФР - probably a purchase in France.
There could have been other markings. The marks also appear on previous cartridges 10.67x58 R for the Berdan rifle /

The purchase of brass took place on a competition basis - one supplier for a lot of hulls, the exception was in 1905. The reason was the lack of ammunition. Then one batch of cartridges was made from the raw material of 2 suppliers. Similarly, in the last third of the year, every available raw material was used, without any hints in the shells’ beatings"

Information about the brass suppliers’ marking taken from W. A. ​​Gołowatiuk, after the results of his research in the АВИМАИВС / Арт. музея в СПб. /

Maybe you’re right that 8 is Ф, but why then it’s under K? Or K is turned right 90 degrees to Ф when we set them on position of first headstamp? 8 stamp is pretty deep in comparision to others so I dont think so that is Ф mark. Maybe case was loaded second time in Kolchugino (K) in 8 as 98 (1898). But here is one more mark slightly invisible but also in shapes of Ф .

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Neat round. Here is another topic not related to 7.62x54R but mentioning Rosenkranz and Kol’chugino.

Thanks. I’ll read it.

There is full version of article about Mosin but you have to translate it from polish:

Any in Russian? Polish is really hard for me to read.

Google translator do a great work, believe me ;)

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It seems like this may be a pre-production “set-up” lot more intended for in-house use rather than issue. It’s possible that a modified 10.6 bunter was used with only some characters removed. The “K” does not fit the format of the 7.62, but does with the 10.6. Below are photos of 4-10.6 examples(thank you Joe Adashunas for taking the pics) to ponder. Then 4-samples of 7.62x54R headstamps for the conventional format with Cyrillic letters: F, R, P, K…just to add to the confusion!

P6100009 P6100010

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That may have sense. Thank you for help!