Municion.org posting


#1

municion.org has a posting (translate.googleusercontent.com/ … zGEXUPKlWQ) about half way down the cut away page of a German 7.9 Mauser Sabotage round. Does anyone have a suggestion how I could find out what the headstamp was? I do not speak Spanish.

Joe


#2

Joe, what is the title of the thread showing that cartridge?


#3

Fede,

it is half way down on the page the "CARTRIDGES sectioned " tab takes you to. translate.googleusercontent.com/ … AVq6eWcHlA


#4

xjda68,
I should have the e mail address of the guy (B. PATRONE) who provided the picture, ut I have to find it.

If I find it, I will pass him your question


#5

[quote=“Pivi”]xjda68,
I should have the e mail address of the guy (B. PATRONE) who provided the picture, ut I have to find it.

If I find it, I will pass him your question[/quote]

Thanks, as I have over 30 thousand 7,9 rounds of various types that are duplicates. I do tend to shoot the less desirable duplicates at times, just to clean hose if you will. I know of one headstamps to look out for that the Russians sabotaged according to Kent’s book, but always good to keep an eye out for another one that could potentially go Kaboom instead of bang.

Yes, I here you guys reading this and going “No, don’t shoot them”. I will make a list of duplicates when or if I ever get around to it. I do tend to spread myself in to many directions at times. If there is gaps in anyones 7,9 collection that they just must have, email me and I will try to look a bit. I do have a tad bit unofficially sorted.

Joe Adashunas


#6

Joe,

I have X-Ray pictures of 2 different types of ‘sabotage rounds’ (unfortunately i don’t own them)
Both are Copperplated steel shells.

If i can read them correctly, i think the HS is P315 VIg1 22 38



#7

orpheus72

Thanks for the post.

Joe


#8

Is there any characteristics that one should watch for on these booby trap rounds? Like weight, or manufacturer?

Thanks
Zac


#9

Zac,

I personally would say weight. 7,9 is fairly easy to tell if the weight is off. In fact I weigh all my rounds in my collection to make sure I am labeling them correct. I have found several anomalies from a German .22 short dummy inside with the powder, to German cordite filled loads that still puzzle me today how well a job someone did faking the patina on the crimp and all. I can go on and on… but I would say weight. I am however not going to weigh every round I link up for the MG. Especially when I link up 1000 rounds or more to blast away in an afternoon. Just going to check certain headstamps.

Joe

Edit: Spelling.


#10

Given that I think that during WWII all the participating nations , have used systems " not correct " against the enemy.
For ammunition that was definitely made by the Japanese , the British and the Germans
The latter published a manual by the SS explaining the methods to be used against the enemy, but also the traps used by the enemy ( Allies).
I think to please publishing a portion of the manual, which I think is interesting

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Another peculiar thing is that the above manual is signed for approval by Himmler, except the one present in an Italian museum where I could take a few photos excerpts do not think they exist at present many other examples
From my rough translation I understand that you were using 1.2 gram of plastic, with a Primer / detonator called No.8
I have not been able to find out if the headstamp shown is only an example, or if you show the true batch used
If the hypothesis is correct batch P490 was surely not the same completely transformed because personally I own identical cases from the battle of Monte Cassino who were fired normally
At the next time
Giovanni


#11

The description under the pictured headstamp in the Manual is completely wrong, as they stated their, that this headsatmp does not exist on german ammo…
Of course, theyr are sS and SMK-round whit exact this headstamp to find. I do not knew, which Party has issued this booklet or leaflet, but anyway, the conclusion given is wrong.
I have live rounds with that hs in the collection, and they are def. no Sabotage rounds…
So, if in doubt. xray them…

Sincerly
Forensic


#12

Ok, thanks guys

Zac


#13

So it might be safe to say weight is going to be the only determination. Millions of rounds of 7,9 German surplus has been imported into the US since the early 60’s at least. From France to Turkey and others by several US importers that are now out of business for the most part. Millions of rounds have been fired in the US and I have never heard of any Kabooms. There are several lots that have case failure but that is not the same as a sabotaged round loaded with explosives. I have never even found any of the two headstamps that I do look for supposed to be sabotaged.

Joe


#14

[quote=“Forensic”]The description under the pictured headstamp in the Manual is completely wrong, as they stated their, that this headsatmp does not exist on german ammo…
Of course, theyr are sS and SMK-round whit exact this headstamp to find. I do not knew, which Party has issued this booklet or leaflet, but anyway, the conclusion given is wrong.
I have live rounds with that hs in the collection, and they are def. no Sabotage rounds…
So, if in doubt. xray them…

Sincerly
Forensic[/quote]

Forensic,

I was reading some german texts, and i discovered this piece…
So i guess some (for sure not much) rounds with this ‘P490 S* 16 39’ HS could indeed be “sabotage rounds”