Mystery Box?

Anyone have a clue what cartridges were in this box?

I have the same box. The samples are .38 SPL ( from S & B ) necked down to 7,65mm bullet. The were made in Czech Republic, probably for silhouette shooting.

Thank you!

THV, can you, or anyone else, post a pic of the round?

I guess I missed that one. What sort of handgun would use it, and for what purpose? I note the label seems to be in English.

“probably for silhouette shooting”

Hi Jon, here is a picture of the round. This one is a dummy headstamped S&B (Neroxin logo) .38 SPECIAL (Neroxin logo) and I have a loaded round in my collection that is headstamped with only one Neroxin logo.

Interesting - a rimmed 7.62 mm Tokarev. Jonny - your simply MUST get one of these. Wish I had one for you. There are a bunch of these "common calibers necked down - from the Czech Republic in the last six of seven years. As I recall, Lapua had a similar round that never seemed to have gone anywhere beyond the catalog. Could be wrong - I don’t pay much attention to revolver rounds anymore.

Hah! It does look like a rimmed Tok. Now I’m curious about the bullet they used.

Now that’s a calibre that should have been invented if ever I saw one. Why somebody like Bill Ruger didn’t pick that one up is a mystery. So much potential yet such an obvious idea.

There is already a necked down .357/.38 in 6mm or so. What was that one for?

Jon, it is loaded with a brass clad steel 7.65 mm Browning bullet. It looks like the one made by S&B.

“There is already a necked down .357/.38 in 6mm or so. What was that one for?”

That would be the .256 Winchester Magnum. It was just the .357 Magnum case necked down. It came out back in the early 1960s, but never achieved any popularity and later disappeared. I think the idea was to come up with a new varmint caliber. It was used in only a few production guns - A strange-looking Ruger single shot pistol, a Marlin lever-action rifle, and a modified .30 Carbine. And of course there were Thompson Contender barrels available for it.

But back to the subject, and my original question. What was the “7.65 Special” used in and for?

Dennis, I actually meant the .22 Rem Jet. … 209111.jpg … on_Jet.gif

Dennis, I think I answered your “purpose” question above, with part of a quote from further above.

When I mentioned a similar round being made by Lapua, it was the .30-357 AeT, a .357 Magnum case necked down to .30 caliber, introduced as “brass only” in 2001. It was expected to be available in loaded ammunition by Spring of 2001. It was desgined by Italian gun writer and ballistician Nicola Bandini, and named for the Italian gun magazine, “Armi e Tiro.” The round seems to have died early, along with the 9 mm FAR designed by Tanfoglio, also announced on the same 2001 Advertising Sheet from Lapua.

It was intended for a revolver and according to Lapua, Fratelli Pieta was going to introduce a single action “Frontier type” revolver, likely a Colt Peacemaker clone, in 2001. It was expected to have a 123 grain FMJ bullet grain bullet, which in a picture of the cartridge, seems to look much like that for the 7.62 x 39.

Aside from this 2001 sheet from Lapua, they never mention these calibers in earlier or later catalogs, at least none that i have, which is most of the since
that year.

This cartridge is much closer in form, although certainly not identical to, the 7.65 mm Special from Sellier & Bellot, than it is to either the .22 Jet or the .256 Win Mag. Supposedly, the .30-357 AeT would give almost the same ballistics as .30 Herret or .30-30 Winchester when the latter two were fired from revolver length barrels.

The 9 mm FAR brass showed up very, very briefly on the American market, but I don’t know if the .30-375 AeT did or not.

John, were all those cartridges meant for target/silhouette use?

John, the suggested bullet for handloading the .30-357 AeT cases was the 123 grain FMJ S374, which is indeed the same made by Lapua for the 7.62x39, and it was made for the Pietta 1873 “Silhouette” single action revolver. In 1997 an almost identical wildcat named .30 Picra was developed in the Czech Republic for the SP-96 silhouette pistol.

Fede - the two Lapua rounds - the .30-357 AeT and the 9 mm FAR, died overnight in the USA. The FAR was around awhile before Lapua got into it, or at least before they started advertising it, but there were no guns for it.

This leads to the question - did it continue on in other countries. You always have information on this stuff that is beyond the info we see in the USA.

From the FMJ bullet, I would have guessed that the .30-357 AeT round was intended for that. Another instance in the cartridge world of a new cartridge to fill a “void” that wasn’t there. The world certainly didn’t need any think new to knock down those metal animals.

We used to shoot those steel S&B .32s out of .303s as squib loads. They work well at 2000fps and are accurate too! That would have been a sweetheart magnum pistol calibre the .32/.38 Special. It would have cast off all the inhibitions the ammo makers had about low grade old .38 Spec revolvers blowing up with modern ammunition. That always held the .38 Special back.

The .357 worked well as an upgrade but rarely gave good accuracy with lightweight bullets because they were always too short for their diameter. A .32 could have had the best of both worlds.