Mystery mig


#1

This is the business end of a MIG-15 at the Marine Corps Museum. Note it has 3 different calibers of nose cannons. Does anyone want to venture a guess as to what they shoot ?


#2

At the Western Aerospace Museum/Oakland Aviation Museum, located at the North Field of Oakland International Airport, there is a Mig-15 with the same sort of three gun set-up. Sorry to say but this Mig only has the large
37mm gun in place. Could the aircraft in USMC Museum be a variant of some kind as it sure looks like three different bore dia’s in the picture.

The “normal” armament on a Mig-15 was 1 @ 37mm, N37-Cannon and
2 @ 23mm, NS23 or NR23 Machine guns


#3

I’ve never heard of three different calibres on a MiG.

Just a thought, but could it be an optical illusion? One muzzle is evidently further away than the other, and with a wide-angle lens that could make it look smaller.


#4

[quote=“CSAEOD”]This is the business end of a MIG-15 at the Marine Corps Museum. Note it has 3 different calibers of nose cannons. Does anyone want to venture a guess as to what they shoot ?
[/quote]

On prototype stage it was planned to install on MiG-15 one 45 mm and two 23 mm cannons.
Earliest MiG-15s had cannon N-37D 37 mm and two NS-23KM (23 mm). After 1950 NS-23KM were changed to NR-23KM (same caliber but with faster rate of fire).

So the third caliber 45 mm was only planned on prototype stage. And I’m not sure it was ever installed on actual machines.


#5

Yuri, I do have a photo of a MiG-15, taken at a Russian museum, showing one very long but slender gun barrel covered by a perforated sleeve and with a muzzle brake. It’s not on the web, but I can email you a copy if you like. Any ideas?


#6

sfasf


#7

[quote=“Frank N”]At the Western Aerospace Museum/Oakland Aviation Museum, located at the North Field of Oakland International Airport, there is a Mig-15 with the same sort of three gun set-up. Sorry to say but this Mig only has the large
37mm gun in place. Could the aircraft in USMC Museum be a variant of some kind as it sure looks like three different bore dia’s in the picture.

The “normal” armament on a Mig-15 was 1 @ 37mm, N37-Cannon and
2 @ 23mm, NS23 or NR23 Machine guns[/quote]

Thus the problem.

I took this photo and there are 3 different guns mounted. Museum folks know nothing about it. I can find no documented MIGS with 3 different guns. Thus the question.


#8

[quote=“Tony Williams”]I’ve never heard of three different calibres on a MiG.

Just a thought, but could it be an optical illusion? One muzzle is evidently further away than the other, and with a wide-angle lens that could make it look smaller.[/quote]

There are 3 different guns.

CHINESE ?


#9

Are you sure, that those are two different guns? Looking at the pictures about the MIG-15 it is clearly visible that the inner gun is built in further back than the outer. It can cause an opticall illusion that the inner gun looks smaller caliber from a close front viewpoint.

Regards,
Vince


#10

I don’t know a thing about this subject, but if there is someone on this Forum from the San Diego, California area, there is a Chinese MIG-15 in the Aircraft Museum in Balboa Park. Perhaps they could go over there and look it over and see if the one in question might also be Chinese. I do recall that the Chinese MIG in SD had the PLA version of the red star, with the Chinese Characters for 81 in the center of it. I only remember it having two guns, both down at the lower left side of the nose, but it has been awhile since I went to the Museum, and I could be way off on that. I remember the first time I saw it I was struck by how low these airplanes sit on their landing gear. As I recall, I had to bend over to look at the gun barrels.


#11

[quote=“strakv”]Are you sure, that those are two different guns? Looking at the pictures about the MIG-15 it is clearly visible that the inner gun is built in further back than the outer. It can cause an opticall illusion that the inner gun looks smaller caliber from a close front viewpoint.

Regards,
Vince[/quote]

Again - 50 years in ordnance- I took the photo and saw the guns- 3 different size holes. Thus the question.


#12

Would anyone like to entertain the idea the lower 23mm has had its muzzle brake pilfered? JG


#13

Certainly a nice try.

I have read most of the several sites on google refering to the MIG 15 and Chinese variations. Some say the Chinese never built any, some differ. One thing most agree with is that MIG 15 variations were armed with 12.7, 23 and 37mm guns at various times in various combinations. This fellow seems to have all 3 at once.


#14

New photo added


#15

This pic, of 1x37mm and 2x23mm, on a MIG-15 shows the same apparent optical illusion.
geocities.com/capecanaveral/ … n245-b.jpg


#16

[quote=“Jon C.”]This pic, of 1x37mm and 2x23mm, on a MIG-15 shows the same apparent optical illusion.
geocities.com/capecanaveral/ … n245-b.jpg[/quote]

Good try

Not the same


#17

Opinions seem to vary. Bring a caliper on your next visit.


#18

Opinions always vary. That is what makes them opinions. Facts do not. These guns are not in the same mounts.You can see this clearly. Not the same guns. There are dozens of varieties of MIG 15s with various guns based upon the same platform.

It is very easy to be fooled by a photo. On your next trip to the museum you might want to examine the actual hardware instead of basing your opinion on a photo.

As you might see from my photo I examined the hardware closely, VERY CLOSELY.

Photo misinterpretation is very common in technical intelligence fields. Many of the early US manuals on Soviet and Chinese weapons and systems, for instance, have opinions which are based upon photo interpretation which are off considerably when determining size and / or caliber. These were done by PROFESSIONAL intelligence analysts and as you rightly posit there is the “optical illusion” to always be considered.

I appreciate the effort. Good luck!

I had hoped that some would post photos of the CARTRIDGES which they have in their collections in these calibers.


#19

I am in the camp that says the inboard gun is missing a muzzle attachment, making it look smaller than the outboard one.
From the photo, it “appears” that the inside diameter of the inboard gun is too big to be a 12.7. However, it’s hard to argue with someone who was actually looking at the guns in person, knowing that interpreting photos is an art rather than a science. Since there appears to be some evidence that 12.7’s were installed on some of these aircraft, it is not unreasonable to say that this particular one has three different calibers on board. The big question them becomes WHY? Why step down from cannon calibers to a 12.7? From an operational point of view, it is bad enough to have to upload two different calibers, much less three. My only thought is that the 12.7 was installed for training, to allow less expensive 12.7 to be used. Or, it was used as a “spotter” or “ranging” gun for firing unguided rockets…

AKMS


#20

“I had hoped that some would post photos of the CARTRIDGES which they have in their collections in these calibers.”-CSAEOD

Perhaps you should have said that at the beginning of this non-cartridge thread.