Nato Blank


#1

Can someone help me to get some info about this 7.62mm Nato Blank. The headstamp is DAG 6-61 on all of them.

It is made of plastic.

Thanks

Alex


#2

All the Blanks are Bakelittenfabrik (Norway) Patents, made from injection moulded Plastic and a brass (later aluminium) Base which held the Primers.

Varying colours ( other than Military Black) are mostly for Film Blankfire use, the Gold (brassy) colour especially; the Coppery colour is commercially sold for Re-enactors and “salut” firearms.

Brassy colored ones date from the making of “The Longest Day” ( back in the early 1960s,) where several calibres, including 20mm, were made in this design.

The DAG 6-61 Simply means DynamitNobel Aktien-Gesellschaft, Lot 6 of 1961.

Regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics.


#3

Thank you. Are this 3 rounds hard too find or not ?

Best Alex


#4

DocAV–Are you sure the brassy colored 7.62x51’s were made for the “Longest Day” movie. The movie is about D-Day in Normandy. They, of course, did not have any 7.62x51 rifles then. I do have a .30-06 and a 9mm from that movie. I also have the 20mm Oerlikon Blank from the movie, but they are bright red plastic, not brass colored.


#5

Out of ignorance, how does one know if a blank is made for a particular movie? And why bright red?


#6

Bright red to distinguish them from the bright blue short range of that nation.

Hans


#7

Vlad–In the case of the “Longest Day” special blanks, the information was published in various sources at the time the movie was made (about 1964) that SFM had been asked to produce a blank that would look like a loaded round as they would occasionally be seen on film., thus the “Brass colored plastic”. Unless, the information is published by either the makers of the movie or the cartridge factory, it often is NOT possible to know if a particular blank was for a particular movie. But in the case of the “Longest Day”, which I believe won the Oscar for Best Picture, there was, as I recall, a special short publicity piece done about the making of this historic movie. That may have been the source of the information about this blank. But, whatever the source, it was “common knowledge” among cartridge collectors, even in the 1960’s that this was a special blank for that movie.

Hans–About the color of the 20mm blanks, the difference between Red or Blue, may be true today, but I am not sure, but I don’t think there was or is a “short range” 20mm. They are red for two reasons. 1) They were not ever seen on film, so the color did not matter. 2) Red was the color of almost all Bakelittenfabrik (Norway) Patent based blanks at the time.


#8

Readers may have misinterpreted my Post regarding Colours of DAG blanks…Of Course 7,62x51 Blanks were NOT used in “The Longest Day”…but the principle of colours other than Red (or Black in the case of DAG made blanks) for specific uses other than military is common practice… The copper coloured DAG (“RWS”) Blank is the one commonly available for Re-enactors, in 7,9mm and some other calibres.
I Think Black is used as an indication of “Military” use as against the other colours for “Civilian” use ( restrictions on possession of “military property” in a lot of European Countries etc…for me, a cartridge is a cartridge is a cartridge…)

I remember in the 1960s, Australia tried out RED .30/06 and .50BMG AND 40mm Bofors Blanks for training use.
They did not get accepted, as the plastic tended (a) to melt in Hot guns on firing, (b) head separations were common, also with the Black (DAG & MF (Australian) Blanks) made for 7,62 Nato, and By the 1980s full length Brass had been accepted for general training use; .50 Blanks are simply Ball cases star crimped, as are the .30 blanks; 7,62 and 5,56 are full profile cases. ( to do with the feed mechanisms of respective MGs).

Regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics.


#9

Hi!

Of course the making of “The longest Day” movie needed a great amount of blank ammunition.

In the .30-06 and 9 mm Para calibres, which were the most commonly used, this ammunition resulted of a massive special order to GEVELOT S.A., who had been manufacturing them in white colored plastic for the French Army for a long time. For obvious reasons, a golden coloured variation of the high density polyethylene was choosen, kown as “Fabrication spéciale Teinte Bronze” (or bronze-coloured special fabrication ).

For the Mauser rifles, as well as MG 34 or MG42, the caliber used was 7,5 mm Mle 1929, in the same colour, as they did feed well ,as they fit the German “Gurts”, instead of the original 7,92 mm.
The quantity made was overwhelming, resulting in a great quantity of surplus blank ammo, most of it being bought by several Movie Accessorists, the most important being Regi-Film, in Paris, in order to be sold for next war movies and TV series to come (they were very popular in the 70ies, at least here in France, then the interest slowly faded away, to trise again in the late 90ies.
The choice of the Gevelot plastic blanks was determinated by the way of construction of their blanks, who, since a long time, gave entire satisfaction within the Army, as they never presented a risk of fusing in hot barrels, with their kind of resilient plastic, and were rigid enough thanks to an internal light alloy tube stuck in a base made of the same metal. They only necessitated to put colour granulates in the molten plastic, without changing any other characteristic or loading.

It must be noted that all the blanks made by GEVELOT at this time resulted from their acquisition of the Norvegian RINGDAL Patent (who did not, by the way, cover the blank cartridge itself, but the way in which the plastic was inserted on the metallic head)

In 1990, after the death of the owner and general director of Regi-Film, Mr Alexandre, his sons decided to slow down their activities in the movie rentals of military accessories, so they did ask me to check what was left in their stockpiles, in order to get rid of unused ageing lots. I was actually surprised by the enormous quantities I found there!
A good part was then sold to several other companies, and what was left went to destruction.
Mr Alexandre, owning a rare authorisaton to buy Army weapons and ammunition surplus, had been accumulating for many years a very important quantity of blank ammunition in every available calibre … It was a kind of Ali-Baba’s cave(!), and I even found there crates of 8 mm Lebel made in England or USA during WWI (BMM hstps,REM-UMC, RHACo, Western, etc) and reloaded as blue wooden-bulleted blanks for the French Army during the early thirties, as judged unfit for actual ball shooting… also 6,5 mm Carcano in several variations, like the Magistri Patented blank, 7,92 mm Mauser, a.s.o…

In some crates was a quantity of 45 ACP aluminum blanks, some unheadstamped, but most of them with the ARF 73 headstamp (250 000 rds ordered from Géelot by Regi-Film to be used in Thompson submachine guns, as the commonly available Kynoch-made blanks were found dangerous to use, thanks to projection of hot debris and particles on the players!

To come back to “The Longest Day”, another calibre was also used, the 20x110 Oerlikon, a shortened red plastic cartridge, but it was ordered from Bakelittfabriken in Norway. It seems that the red colour was kept as they did never show up at close quarters in the film. Furthermore, their quantity was relatively small so there was no use to change the red colour of the commonly manufactured Norwegian Army blanks in the machinery line.

So I think that almost everything has been said about this famous “golden” movie blanks… But I will, of course, answer any other questions, if I am able to…

Phil.


#10

OK, I was a bit short. But generally I’m right, Norway regulates red for blanks and blue for short range.

Hans