Need cartridge ID


#1

Posting this for a friend. I don’t have a photo.

rimmed, bottleneck, sharp shoulder

.460 caliber (maybe .458)

neck diameter .482

neck length .385

shoulder diameter .508

base diameter .515

case length 2.750

Rim diameter .600

Gunsmith name is Reed Thompson Jr. The barrel is marked 450-500 Express which seems to be backwards. And the base and rim diameters don’t jibe with a 500-450 Express.

Maybe a wildcat?

Anyone???

Ray


#2

I don’t have a clue. Hope that helps.

Rick :-)


#3

Thanks Rick. I should have gone directly to you before bothering the other guys. BTW, I have heard others say that you don’t have a clue. ;)

My friend now says the rim is actually .660. This places it closer to the 500-450 Express (2.75") which is what I think it probably is.

Does anyone have first hand knowledge of rifles where the barrel markings were backward. i.e. 450-500 Express rather than 500-450 Express.

Ray


#4

:-O)


#5

Base diam is far more smaller than 500 - 450 NE and 500/450 Express #1 2.75" ( .570" / .577" vs .515" )

Rim diam is the same as the 500/450 Express #1 but larger than the 500/450 NE

Dimensional data match the 500/450 Express #1 but the base diam

Just my guess, but I think that the base diam actually should be larger than .515" .Are you sure about this data?


#6

Pivi

We agree. I think it’s a 500-450 Express #1 (2.75"), except for the body diameter. I’ll ask him to check that dimension again. I don’t think he has an actual cartridge but is measuring a chamber cast or, possibly the chamber itself.

I stiil would like to hear from anyone who has seen a barrel mis-marked like this one. It makes me wonder if the cartridge is actually a wildcat and the “500” refers to the bullet weight.

Ray


#7

I thought it was a wildcat as I’ve heard of a Reed Express, but I can only find a .22 Reed Express.

Hope the following is of help

.500/450 No 1 Express:

Bullet Ø BØ .4495
Total length TL 3.5530
Primer Ø PØ .2505
Mouth Ø MØ .4845
Case length CL 2.7580
Neck Ø NØ .4935
Neck length NL .7460
Should. Ø SØ .5335
Should. length SL 1.8700
Head Ø HØ .5730
Rim thickness RT .0585
Rim Ø RØ .6570

.500/450 Westley Richards No1 Express:

Bullet Ø BØ .4495
Total length TL 3.5530
Primer Ø PØ .2505
Mouth Ø MØ .4845
Case length CL 2.7580
Neck Ø NØ .4935
Neck length NL .7460
Should. Ø SØ .5335
Should. length SL 1.8700
Head Ø HØ .5730
Rim thickness RT .0585
Rim Ø RØ .6570


#8

For what it’s worth…

This is from Ray’s dims. with a shoulder length shown of .0625".

Maybe the .515 dia. base should be .575 ?

Dave


#9

DaveE, what program do you use to create that ? it’s good.


#10

Armourer,

The program is SolidWorks. If one takes the time, you can make them more “purty”.

Dave

(Edited to remove image not related to topic.)


#11

Just what I was thinking. Good software.

There was a .500/.450 Magnum as well and a .500/465 which look visually similar but the neck appears longer in both instances. (ref Henry Kranks catalog Bertram cases)

It was a very crowded area in terms of cartridge development. I feel I am probably up to speed with most of the British calibres because it was always an interest of mine.
As a gut feeling I suggest you look towards Austrailia where a lot of parallel but independant development took place. If Doc AV is on line perhaps he knows something. A headstamp may be revealing. The gunsmith is not known to me as a British name.


#12

Thanks to all. And thank you Dave for that drawing. My friend is duly impressed.

He is going to find a piece of basic brass that will fit and then fire form a case. His measurements all came from the chamber itself so there was room for error. I’ll let you know what he says. I’m gonna bet it is a 500-450 Express #1 (2.75").

Ray