Need help identifying this 7.62x54r New pic


#1

I picked up one of those 40’s loose lots. Some cool stuff I didn’t have. So far there is one I can’t identify. The head stamp is as follows 45 at the bottom, a reverse “E” on the right, nothing on the left and where the factory code should be is just a raised dot. Standard primer cup, red primer sealant. The projectile looks like it had a black maybe red tip. Copper washed case.Any ideas?


#2

According to the year of 1945 and the “Ш” (“Sh” in English latin) it should be Soviet (no other options come to my mind). The dot instead the factory code and the “Sh” at the 3h position (usually at 9h, or 8h when a 3x120° hs) and the PA style are unusual though.

Maybe a clandestine and so far undocumented lot? Anyhow an excellent cartridge!

Any chance for a better image of the hs?
If you have a scanner you may put it on there and use the highest resolution for a scan.


#3

The more I look at the image the more the “Ш” looks like a “IV” (indicating a lot number then as usual in late war). Could you confirm please?

Also: could you check on the seating depth of that primer? Is it like any other Soviet cartridge (not the “Ш” marked ones) of this caliber or is it seated 0.2 mm deeper?


#4

If the Cyrillic character is “Sh”, then it is a “ShKAS” Aircraft MG cartridge, a very high Rate of fire gun ( 1200 plus RPM) used in WW II and Korea.

The Cartridge cases were specially made, with a re-inforced head design.
Primers were also seated more deeply.

regards.
Doc AV
AV Ballistics.


#5

Until we see a clearer image I’m more inclined to agree with EOD that the character is a ‘IV’. It would also be very unusual to see the ‘Sh’ symbol at the 3 o’clock position - it’s generally on the opposite side at 9 o’clock.


#6

Doc, the cases actually had thicker walls. The primer cup was shorter than usual to allow deeper seating (sometimes crimped in).
There also do exist early brass cases for the ShKAS but I have no information on the design of the cases (I assume them to be reinforced). The early ShKAS copper clad steel cases have no “Ш” applied but bear all other proper markings like red primers etc…

The only other country I know of that made ShKAS cartridges is Hungary. They used the additional latin letter “S in the hs”.


#7

This is as good as gets with my camera. All the ShKAS rounds I have a noticeable primer crimp around the entire primer. I don’t have a mic that will let me know the exact seating depth. I’ve never seen the “Sh” symbol in that position either. I can’t be 100% sure it’s not a IV but never seen Roman numerals on 40’s Russian head stamps. I do have several examples from the 40’s with plant code, year and month of production but those had the month stamped in the 9 O’clock position with standard numerals.


#8

I’ve played around with just the relevant part of the photo as best as I can and, although far from clear, I’d still call it a ‘IV’.