Need help identifying two unknown cartridges

I need some help identifying two old revolver cartridges. One is about .38 cal., the other about .41 cal. Neither have headstamps. The specs are as follows:

first cartridge:
bullet dia.: .375"
neck dia.: .378"
base dia.: .378"
rim dia.: .435"
case length: .865"
ctg. length: 1.317"

second cartridge:
bullet dia.: .415"
neck dia.: .445"
base dia.: .455"
rim dia.: .584"
case length: .920"
ctg. length: 1.208

Anyone have any ideas?

Dan

"

#1 is close to a 9.4mmX19.5R Swiss
#2 looks like a 10.8mm Montenegriner No. 4

Thanks for the IDs. The second one looks familiar; I had it identified when I got it but somehow didn’t make note of it like I
normally would. Do you have any pictures of the Swiss cartridge for comparison or the specs for it? The bullet diameter on mine is close (9.5mm), but the case length is 22mm, so that may not be it. Any other guesses?

Dan, in my opinion the first cartridge is a .38 Colt Navy (.38 Long Colt, Outside Lubricated) and was likely made by UMC.

Regarding the second cartridge, this is the same cartridge shown in Erlmeier and Brandt’s book as the “10.4 mm Montenegrin No. 4”, but this identification is not correct. This cartridge is in fact an early long cased and inside lubricated example of the .44 Webley made by UMC. You can find more information in these threads:

Regards,

Fede

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