Need help in identification of RF cartridges and manufacture


#1

Please, help me to identify cartridges #2, 3 and 4 (#1 is .22 LR and it’s shown for visual comparison) and manufacturers of cartridges #2 and 4.

Thanks for any help



#2

Hello threshkin,

No. 2 & 3 = .22 Winchester Rimfire Automatic
No. 4 = .22 Remington Autoloading


#3

Thank you very much, Fede!


#4

H = Winchester (something about a Mr Henry that worked for / assigned patents to them)
U = Union Metallic Cartridge which is a division of Remington


#5

Thank you, Tailgunner!


#6

the “R” in a shield is a German RWS (Rheinisch-Westfälischen Sprengstoff )

The “U” was Union Metallic Cartridge Co, UMC was combined with Remington in 1912 to become Remington UMC. The U headstamp remained on their cartridges. This cartridge could be a UMC or Remington as the cartridge was produced from about 1903.

The “H” headstamp was used by Winchester on their early ammo and stood for “Henry” (Benjamin Tyler Henry), the inventor of the Henry repeating rifle made by the New Haven Arms Company which was renamed the Winchester Repeating Arms Company in 1866.

I think the UMC round is smokeless powder and the other two are black powder rounds. If my memory is working correctly the ring around the case was used to identify smokeless versus black powder.


#7

I believe that both cartridges are smokeless powder. That was their original intent - to prevent the use of blackpowder 22 RF cartridges in the new-fangled semi auto rifles.

The 22 Remington Automatic cartridges are much less common than the Winchester although neither is rare. As if somebody actually collects such things. ;) ;)

Ray


#8

Ray
I see you’ve been studying your “Cartridges of the World” where it has that exact statement seems to be (now that I looked it up because I didn’t know that) :) I was just using my flabby head muscle which has mostly turned to fat.

I do have about two dozen boxes of the Winchester Autos, but my wife made me buy them. I tried to tell her that no one collects them but she just ignored me (again). Thankfully I didn’t buy any of the other one (Rem Auto). :)

EDIT= PS: I did have to look up what RWS stood for and Henry’s full name…


#9

Thanks all for great comments!


#10

Actually the .22 Remington auto headstamped U was produced only by Remington-UMC because its introduction date was after the 1912 amalgamation of the two firms. The rifle was the Model 16 and its first appearance was 1915 or '16. Jack


#11

From RWS 1921 catalog:


#12

.22 Winchester Auto for Winchester Model 1903 rifle first appeared in the 1910 UMC catalog on page 71. The early catalogs showed Remington guns and UMC cartridges.

Starting in 1911 the catalogs were called Remington-UMC.

The earliest Remington-UMC catalog that I have showing the .22 Remington Auto is the 1917, but I don’t have the 1915 and 1916. It was not in the 1913-14 catalog


#13

Roger–Actually, the .22 Winchester Automatic, Model 1903 first appeared in the 1903 Salesman Price list on the “New Cartridges” page. Strangely, tough, it was NOT listed in the main part of the catalog. The first appearence as an actually listing was in the April, 1904 catalog.

U.M.C. 1903 Salesman Price List

U.M.C. April, 1904 Salesman Price List


#14

Roger–You are correct that the .22 Remington Autoloading was first listed in the 1917 catalog.

Rem-UMC 1917 Salesman Price List


#15

Ron
You are right about the 1904 UMC catalog. It was listed in the front under “New Cartridges”, but for some strange reason it’s not in the actual list of rimfires which is where I was checking for it.

From April 1904 Price list


#16

Roger–It is not listed on the page you show because that is a list of Black Powder Rimfire cartridges. In the 1904 catalog it is listed on page 19 with the “Smokeless” Rimfires as shown on the page I included above.


#17

https://afte.org/laravel.php/gallery/index/327