Need Help on ID of German 16rd box-Czech Box-1946


#1

This is really a long shot. I have this P 08 box in my collection for ~30 years hoping I’d see another, more complete and find out what it is. I got it empty. the only thing on the label is the “0” and what looks like part of another “0”. In the top right corner of the label is a bit of blue indicating it was probably light blue with a dark blue strip indicating steel case ammunition. Have never figured out what the label might have been. Have even gone through my references including the great 7.92 box labels in the b ook by Winbdisch, Micke and Kellner and have not spotted anything similar.

Has anyone got a more complete version of this label or an idea what the label may have been or been for?

Cheers,
Lew


#2

Hi Lew,

Nice enigma :)

The character looks like this: Ů.

Looks like a foreign box, perhaps from one of the axis countries or one of the occupied countries.

I’m thinking Czecho-Slowakia…

(these are not mine, they were posted on the IAA forum earlier, but it makes a nice reference to the use of the character on a box)


#3

Vlim, Good eye!!! I put it under a magnifying glass and it is clearly “Ů”. Well done. The letter before it looks like half of a “0”. Could well have been a Slovak box since they seemed to have a lot of latitude in what they produced. I wish I knew what the box label of the Z St+ 1 42 round looked like! I understand a long time ago a partial box showed up in Austria but never heard anything about the box itself.

Many Thanks!
Lew


#4

Lew,

Vlim beat me to it, as have been busy all day. I believe that your box is similar to a nice condition box I have, that is full. The label is mostly light blue, with only white ends, and all print is in black. It is a 16-round box. Mine holds cartridges of the German Type mE with lacquered-steel case, brass primer with black primer seal, GMCS RN bullet, and headstamp “dou.-St+ 5 45” (although of course yours could have been a different lot).

The box appears to be Slovak. Perhaps from the language and abbreviations someone can tell us if the language is Czech or Slovak. It is a post-war box from 1946. If I have time tomorrow I will email you photos of all sides of the box and you can post them on the Forum. In the interim, I will type the label out for you and others. Please note that the caliber I have typed is NOT a mistake. That’s what the box says:

                 P.S.             16
                   7.92mmPISTOLOVÝ NÁBOJU
                      VZ 08(N) SE ZEL. JADEM
                  Pl. B. XII 1946 PRACH (0,8-0 ? wal
                  PARTIE 23              N 0,38 S? 1944/2

There were some punctuation marks over letters that I did not know how to reproduce on this Forum. Question marks within the label content indicates that I believe some character was there, but that it has been obliterated by wear since it is right on top of where the lid tucks into the box.

Of course, neither I nor anyone else can say that my label is identical to what yours was, based on two characters left on yours. There could have been other labels from PS before or after this one. I would be surprised if they did not quickly correct the printing error showing the caliber as “7.92” rather than 9mm, for example.

As I said, I will send you photos so you can see that I have reproduced my box accurately, and that it really exists.

Edited to remove typos only.


#5

Well, as is often the case on this Forum, what I typed is not precisely what I see now. I typed the label with the various lines centered and spaced like on the original, but that is not the way the eccentric program for this part of the Forum reproduced it on the thread. Sorry about that, but I have no idea how to make this thing print things in the way I have actually typed them.


#6

John & Vlim, You guys are awesome! John’s box convinced me, but the spacing of the blue stripe and and some other spacing was a bit off from my label. In my own collection I found a box that I picked up about a year ago. It is almost identical to John’s but is lot VIII 1946 and is “9mm” instead of “7.92mm”. Here the spacing, location of blue stripe letter size, everything is essentially identical to my unknow!

Mystery solved. Thanks!!!

Cheers,
Lew

PS: I love John’s “7.92 mm Pistolovych” box. back in the early 1980s, at a German meeting just outside of Karlsruhr, there were a lot of dou and PS boxes piled on a table. All were sealed and I found this one, the only 7.92 marked box on the table. I bought about 10 of the various boxes and immediately opened this one. I expected a misprinted label, but thought an 8mm Luger cartridge would be a nice find also. Of course I found what I expected, a late date dou headstamped P08.


#7

Lew, the spacing of the blue stripe seems to vary a lot. Here is another example with identical markings to John’s box:


#8

I have several other German-Style 16-round boxes but in the Czech language.
Is it worth publishing them on this thread, or are the very common? I suspect the latter. It is no trouble taking pictures of them, but no point if not interesting. Of course, I like them very much, but not everyone is an auto pistol “box nut” like I am. I like the boxes as much or more than the cartridges.


#9

I’d be happy to see them, haven’t found an example over here (yet) :)


#10

Vlim - I took the pictures. I will find someone to post them here on the Forum.


#11

I learned another humbling lesson yesterday. I was deciding whether to throw away the box that started this thread, or toss it in a box full of duplicates because someone somewhere may want it for something (I hate to throw things away-just ask my wife). In the process I opened it and looked inside. There was what I’d call the standard Czech post-WWII divider with square corners (The post-WWII East German dividers are the same). My recollection is that all German WWII dividers have the rounded corners (comparison below).

Had I bothered to look inside, and bothered to notice the insert, I would have known at the beginnng of this thread that the box was not German.

Has anyone ever seen the square shaped divider in German WWII 16rd boxes, even those made in the Czech & Polish factories?

I’d hope one of these days I learn to REALLY look at what I’m holding in my hand!

Cheers,
Lew


#12

Lew, the square shaped divider is found in “dou” boxes of 1944/45 (headstamps dou. St+ 12 44 and dou.-St+ 3 45).


#13

Thanks Fede! Based on your post, I looked at a pretty good sample of my ak and dou boxes. I found both types of inserts in both 1944 & 1945 dou boxes, and in both 1944 & 1945 ak boxes. I did not find the square style of insert in any of the dou or ak boxes I checked from 1943 and earlier.

Any other examples of this square style “Czech Insert” that anyone out there knows of? I know they are in my post war East German boxes, but I haven’t encountered them in other WWII boxes as I can recall.

Thanks for the help.

Lew