Need help on ID please maybe a 7.5x55mm?


#1

http://www.flickr.com/photos/upsrogue/DSCF0912http://www.flickr.com/photos/upsrogue/DSCF0909

I hope the photos go through or this will be a waste of time, I can also post measuresments if needed. Thanks


Tool Blank?
#2

Well my hope was shot cause they aint no pics there. sorry


#3

Steve,

Why don’t you post measurements, and tell us about the round - headstamp, shape and material of bullet jacket, colors of any seals at the neck and/or primer (or that there are none), material of primer cup (brass, nickel, copper, steel, etc.), case material, and any other outstanding features (tip colors, special crimps, etc.).

I probably won’t know jack about it, but we have guys on this Forum that really are experts, and probably can help you identify your round even without the desired pictures.

John Moss


#4

headstamp T A 6 69

This is a plastic blank cartridge model 1958
from 1969 made at Thun Switserland

regards
gyrojet


#5

Hey John now that you can see the pic
(thanks to someone on the other side of the world that can do something I can’t right here)
you see its plastic for the most part, and generaly on plastic to measure it is a waste cause it does not hold as true as the same brass case or other type metal case.
The case belongs to a buddy that collects guns not cartridges and he asked me to find what what I could about it. He told me he had more than one and “he thought it was a snap cap so he put one in a 308 rifle and pulled the trigger” he said that a white powder covered the bore and the barrel and he had a devil of a time in cleaning it up, said there was no solvent he had that would touch it. He said after he figured it out it was’nt a snap cap he wondered if this white powder was vudoo nasty stuff or what?.
So I told him I would try a get a ID on it first and then maybe get some info on the “white vudoo nasty powder”. Any thoughts on that gyrojet?

And thanks gyrojet on getting the picture up and the ID, he says he’s not going to treat it like a snap cap anymore at least not in his 308 rifle anyway.


#6

I disagree with you on measurements of plastic rounds. They must fit the chambers of guns they are made for, and therefore will fall into the basic measurements. However, that said, the important part here, for when you asked your question intially, was the fact that the round is green plastic with a brass base. That coupled with even the possibility of slightly skewed measurements due to its plastic body would have immediately, just as the picture did, identify this as a 7.5 x 55 Swiss blank cartridge, for training troops It is not a snap cap.

The “white powder” is residue from the very fast-burning powder used in blanks. I have never shot a Swiss one, but I can tell you that in basic training in the Army in the 1950s, we hated shooting blanks through our Garand rifles. They made the rifle much harder to clean that it was after shooting normal, corrosvie-primed ball ammunition. Much more carbon buildup in the gas system, etc. Don’t know if that’s true for all blanks or not.

Glad it got identified for you and your friend. Gyrojet is one of the “true experts” I mentioned, and like most on the Forum, always ready to help with good information.

John Moss


#7

This green Swiss blanks were used in this white charger .
And also in belt’s for the MG


#8

perhaps I did’nt make it very clear with all that rambing,
he said when he loaded a round (not the round pictured) in the chamber of a gun and pulled the trigger it went bang like a blank thats when this white powder residue became caked all over the chamber and barrel of his gun and when he tried to clean it, it would’nt come off with any powder solvent he had on hand and I did’nt ask him how he ended up getting it clean I just remember him saying he had a devil of a time getting it off the bore of the gun.
So that was the other part of his question, he said he had fired all kinds of blanks in his life but none that left a powder residue that was so hard to clean off, so he wondered if it was more than just a blank??
But thats OK he got a ID from a expert, when he gets back from hunting I will let him know what was found. thanks again


#9

Steve - no worry. I made a big boo-boo also. I was just discussing 9 mm Para dummies with a personal friend via private email, and I guess I got dummy rounds fixed in my feeble mind. The cartridge is indeed a blank and NOT a dummy round. I have edited my post completely, because my erroneous description of it as a dummy round, if read by itselt, could have dangerous implications for someone chambering and dropping the hammer on one of these rounds think it is a dummy. It is NOT. As Gyrojet said, it is a blank, and I knew that. I have a green plastic blank for Switzerland in my own 9 mm Para collection! Good lesson for engaging the brain before hitting the typing keys. Helps if there is a brain to engage - in my case, I am becoming less and less convinced that it is still there inside my head!

Sorry for the initial wrong answer, but the principles about measuring are the same.

John Moss


#10

[quote=“JohnMoss”]The “white powder” is residue from the very fast-burning powder used in blanks. I have never shot a Swiss one, but I can tell you that in basic training in the Army in the 1950s, we hated shooting blanks through our Garand rifles. They made the rifle much harder to clean that it was after shooting normal, corrosvie-primed ball ammunition. Much more carbon buildup in the gas system, etc. Don’t know if that’s true for all blanks or not.

John Moss[/quote]

John,

Back in 1970 I was working with a team of Swiss engineers, most of whom were also in the Swiss Army. They told me that they hated firing the blanks because of the mess they made of the rifle. To avoid this, the youngest/less experienced soldier in the section was persuaded to take everybody’s blank ammo for his own rifle and to do all of the shooting whilst the others just went through the motions. The result was only one rifle to clean.

gravelbelly


#11

Gravelbelly,

we were equally unsound. Being trained to serve in the Navy we were only sent out once into the bushes dressed in green - maybe just to make summer pass. One of us guys knew about the dirty effects before and we had one lad fire hundreds of plastic blanks (DNG/DAG were as bad in this aspect as the Swiss) until the “pipe” was virtually plugged. While for the sake of “noise distribution” the other guys fired very few. But, “comrades in arms”, to present a cleaned gun afterwards he had someone else’s for inspection. We got his G3 cleaned eventually, under the shower applying a lot of hot water …


#12

That is also wy the Swiss army used this special machine!!

The “Swiss Machinengewehrmarkiergerät” and its Ammunition ( IAA Journal 454 )

Frequent use of weapons with exercises causes severe damage to those weapons even before actual use in military missions. Fully automatic weapons are extremely sensitive for this kind of wear out.
Since the Swiss Army was aware of this, they developed a special machine for their MG’s: the Maschinengewehrmarkiergerät or MM Gt.
The purpose of the MM Gt is to imitate the sound (“bang”) of the machine gun. In this way, no expensive blanks are needed and wear out of the weapon is avoided.
The Maschinengewehrmarkiergerät uses 5,6 mm (.22) ammunition in boxes of 100 pieces.
This kind of ammunition is the only ammo fit for firing with the MM Gt: the MM Gt will not fire with any other bullets. After firing, the empty box with gun shelves can be replaced by a new box and the MM Gt is ready for further use.


#13

I did not think this post would go this far but its very interesting anyway.
I hope this is not to far off topic but I have shot and and developed a lot of blanks myself so when gravelbelly stated that the white powder residue was just one of the problems, it makes since.
My personal learning curve on this was only about 10 or 12 years ago, I was a member of the Arizona Rough Riders A troop in Prescott AZ. One of the guys in the troop bought a 1895 Colt automatic rifle and wanted to use it in reenactments, and came to me for help on making blanks. Now Mr. Jonathan Browning may have rolled over in his grave if he had found out what we were doing to his little baby, but we did it anyway.
It did’nt take very long and we had that dude just puttering along just like it was shooting live ammo. Another guy had worked on the barrel restriction and I developed the blank.
Now all I knew was I had to use a fast burning powder and I found one (700X) and tried it and it worked almost the the first try. I checked the pressure figures the best I could and found it was more than safe.

Now I say all that because I had guys coming to me asking how I kept the barrel clean (they probably asked because of the nightmares they had during training for the war) I did’nt know about these problems at all. And of course 700X is very very clean compared to whatever was used for military blanks. I did’nt know this at the time and of course I’m still learing about these things.
And some of these guys would ask what load I had developed with the 700X, I told them and one guy flat said “no way it won’t work with that powder with any charge” I said stick around and I’ll show you.

Soo I guess it would have been nice to have some of the newer powder back in the early days maybe.


#14

Steve–The above post is acceptable, but be sure you do not stray into stating the amount of powder, etc. to use as this would then fall under our prohibition on loading and reloading data on this forum because of possible liability problems.