Need Help on unheadstamped 9x19 blank and green tip load


I picked up these two rounds a year or two ago and didn’t know or have forgotten their origin!

The round on the left has a black base and a dark green tip that appears to be translucent lacquer very similar to that used on the base of some S&B proof loads though it does not show up well on my scanner. The bullet is magnetic and the overall weight of the round is 188.5gr. The bullet shape & color and the dark green lacquer makes me suspect this is a S&B product. It came to me from the Czech Republic but no linage to the best of my memory. Perhaps the person I got it from will read this and remember the story.

The blank on the right is 28.25mm long and the tip appears to be painted white over a was tip seal. It looks similar in shape to some FN blanks in my collection, but is not identical in shape to any of them. My guess would be this is an FN product.

Any help with either one of these is appreciated.



Lew; as you know I am the last to state here but wasn’t there South Africa using some white seals on blank loads?

And the suspected HPT: The ones we saw from Czechoslovakia (by S&B or proof house) I never saw with colored tips.
Not that it means much but maybe worth to look elsewhere too?


Thanks! I looked over my South African blanks and none have this style ogive and the only ones with a tip seal are the early ones with a tiny silver seal inside the tip. All these blanks have headstamps.

The green tip round could be a proof, but I don’t have any proof loads with a black base as far as I can tell with a quick look at the collection. I have S&B proof loads with red, green and blue bases but not Black and none have a tip color! Still, a Czech proof would be my guess right now, but it is only a guess.



Hi Lew,

Congratulations! The one on the right is a really good cartridge. It’s a Argentine experimental grenade blank made by FLB: Argentinian 9 mm Parabellum blanks




Thanks Fede,

You just proved John Moss’ point in the thread you reference. I apparently saw this blank at his house and forgot it. Now I forgot you posted it on the Forum and that he reminded me where I had seen it before! No wonder it looked vaguely familiar to me!

John, I think you will enjoy that I forgot this blank again—a case of Half-heimers which I won’t deny. I don’t remember where I got this blank. Perhaps you should check your collection. It could have come in one of the Care packets you have sent over the past few years!



Lew - I do this all the time. There was a quote in the movie “Patton” that
All glory is fleeting." In my case, it is “All memories are fleeting.” Sometimes
I forget that I have seen something before, or that I have a cartridge. My best
duplicate cartridges are purchasing mistakes I made at SLICS, etc.

I was just about to answer this and tell you where it was made when I realized
I hadn’t scrolled all the way down yet. Well, one embarrassing entry I didn’t
make, anyway.

I don’t know where you got yours. Mine came from one of the Argentinians some
time ago, at either a Chicago or St. Louis show. I got it the same time I got my
Argentine 9 mm solid steel armorer’s dummy. I don’t think I ever had a dupe of
that blank, so likely it did NOT come from me.

John M.


Here is the factory data sheet of this round. This is a scan from a c. 1978 catalog that includes bible paper additions in English language.

This grenade blank was also intended to fire tear gas grenades with Uzi, PAM 1 and 2, and FMK3 and 4 submachine guns. Below you can see an extremely rare display board showing these grenades. At left, anti-riot tear gas grenade Model 1 (GCM-M1); at right, armor-piercing tear gas grenade Model 1 (GLP-M1).


Fede, thanks a lot for the image of the grenades!!!