Need some help with translation French terms


#1

Sorry for childish question, but I need help with translation standard French manufacturers types into English:

Atelier de construction
Atelier de Precision
Atelier de Fabrication
Ateliers Pyrotecnie

and, also additional question: where was situated Atelier de Precision, which used manufacturers code AP?


#2

Your questions are interesting, and lead to further explanations, and considerations which would, anyway, be outside of our problems in this forum…

Atelier de Construction was the generic term used for the State-owned ammunition makers in France. They closed one after the other in the last part of XXth century, the last one being Le Mans, which ended its activities in 1998. They were also known as “Cartoucheries” (i.e. Cartoucherie du Mans, Cartoucherie de Vincennes, Cartoucherie de Valence, a.s.o.).

Atelier de Fabrication was a synonyme, which could also be used for making non-ammunition materials…another contradiction for the supposed-to-be cartesian French way of thinking…(!)

Atelier de Pyrotechnie was the name of the State-owned powder and explosives factories.
The term was in general use as there was a State Monopole for this kind of products in France. They were delivering to military but also civilian users (for instance, hunting powders), until the creation of the SNPE (Société Nationale des Explosifs) after WWII.
The monopole was the reason why foreign-made ammunition had to be imported powder-free- since the label"loaded in France" affixed on US made imports, from the beginning of XXth century. It does not exist anymore, as the SNPE, still existing to-day, has been privatised.

It is necessary to differentiate this powder factories from less important-sized “Pyrotechnies”, mostly depending from military installations like the ones in use with the French Navy, like "Pyrotechnie de Toulon, Pyrotechnie de Brest (also known as Pyrotechnie St Nicolas), a.s.o…They made (and still make) specific products for naval use, but also for E.O.D. (a sector depending from the Ministry of Inside Affairs, not Defense).

By the way, there are no more military ammo manufacturing in France to-day and unhappily,every military rounds must be bought abroad, an absolutely ridiculous situation (there is in this very moment, a Parliamentay Commission which started an inquiry about the people responsible of such a situation, but the problem is that the Defense Ministry will probably argue the lack of money as their budget has been drastically cut off…).

Now, the term of “Atelier de Précision” could be used for any kind of so-called “precision” artifacts, i.e. optical devices, a.s.o… It was used also with State-owned facilities, but mostly with private companies. So it is difficult to precise the location of “A P” , without any further indication.

Phil


#3

[quote=“stuka222”]Your questions are interesting, and lead to further explanations, and considerations which would, anyway, be outside of our problems in this forum…

Atelier de Construction was the generic term used for the State-owned ammunition makers in France. They closed one after the other in the last part of XXth century, the last one being Le Mans, which ended its activities in 1998. They were also known as “Cartoucheries” (i.e. Cartoucherie du Mans, Cartoucherie de Vincennes, Cartoucherie de Valence, a.s.o.).

Atelier de Fabrication was a synonyme, which could also be used for making non-ammunition materials…another contradiction for the supposed-to-be cartesian French way of thinking…(!)

Atelier de Pyrotechnie was the name of the State-owned powder and explosives factories.
The term was in general use as there was a State Monopole for this kind of products in France. They were delivering to military but also civilian users (for instance, hunting powders), until the creation of the SNPE (Société Nationale des Explosifs) after WWII.
The monopole was the reason why foreign-made ammunition had to be imported powder-free- since the label"loaded in France" affixed on US made imports, from the beginning of XXth century. It does not exist anymore, as the SNPE, still existing to-day, has been privatised.

It is necessary to differentiate this powder factories from less important-sized “Pyrotechnies”, mostly depending from military installations like the ones in use with the French Navy, like "Pyrotechnie de Toulon, Pyrotechnie de Brest (also known as Pyrotechnie St Nicolas), a.s.o…They made (and still make) specific products for naval use, but also for E.O.D. (a sector depending from the Ministry of Inside Affairs, not Defense).

By the way, there are no more military ammo manufacturing in France to-day and unhappily,every military rounds must be bought abroad, an absolutely ridiculous situation (there is in this very moment, a Parliamentay Commission which started an inquiry about the people responsible of such a situation, but the problem is that the Defense Ministry will probably argue the lack of money as their budget has been drastically cut off…).

Now, the term of “Atelier de Précision” could be used for any kind of so-called “precision” artifacts, i.e. optical devices, a.s.o… It was used also with State-owned facilities, but mostly with private companies. So it is difficult to precise the location of “A P” , without any further indication.

Phil[/quote]

Thank you very much! Great info!


#4

The French Term “Atelier” is the equivalent of the Russian “Artel” denoting a Workshop in Pre- Revolutionary Russia. ( original meaning.) Modern French has developed the original word into a meaning of Factory, on a larger scale.
Of course, the Pre-French Revolutionary meaning of “Atelier” as a small workshop is still used when relating to the (French) fashion industry, as in making dresses, high quality hand bags, etc and the Artist’s studio ( whether Painting or Sculpture.)

Russia still has a lot of French-derived words in the Russian language ( from the time of Peter the Great, who introduced French as the Court language, and imported French Artists, Engineers etc. to build St. Petersburg.)

Happy New Year from drowned and muddy Brisbane,
Doc AV


#5

The Dutch also borrowed the word ‘Atelier’ and it is still used for a workshop, but mostly for artists workshops these days. We also inherited quite a number of French words as a result of many years of French occupation.

My favorite is our local version of ‘subite’, which means ‘yeah, later…’ instead of the original french ‘immediately!’. :)


#6

[quote=“DocAV”]The French Term “Atelier” is the equivalent of the Russian “Artel” denoting a Workshop in Pre- Revolutionary Russia. ( original meaning.) Modern French has developed the original word into a meaning of Factory, on a larger scale.
Of course, the Pre-French Revolutionary meaning of “Atelier” as a small workshop is still used when relating to the (French) fashion industry, as in making dresses, high quality hand bags, etc and the Artist’s studio ( whether Painting or Sculpture.)

Russia still has a lot of French-derived words in the Russian language ( from the time of Peter the Great, who introduced French as the Court language, and imported French Artists, Engineers etc. to build St. Petersburg.)

Happy New Year from drowned and muddy Brisbane,
Doc AV[/quote]

Thanks for your comments! I only would like to specify the meaning of French term Atelier in time of WWI - does it was more factory then workshop?


#7

Dear Treshkin,
By WW I, Atelier in French had come to mean any large factory establishment, producing any sort of products.

The term “Usines” in F. is more modern, relating specifically to metal working, especially Automobile Engineering ( “Usines Renault”), a term already in use during and before WW II.

Just as a comparison, in Spanish, the word “Talleres” means the same as “Atelier”…both words are of Romance ( Latin) language derivation, and basically meant “To Cut” in medieval usage.

Hope this excursion into Language etymology is helpful.

Doc AV
AV Ballistics.


#8

[quote=“DocAV”]Dear Treshkin,
By WW I, Atelier in French had come to mean any large factory establishment, producing any sort of products.

The term “Usines” in F. is more modern, relating specifically to metal working, especially Automobile Engineering ( “Usines Renault”), a term already in use during and before WW II.

Just as a comparison, in Spanish, the word “Talleres” means the same as “Atelier”…both words are of Romance ( Latin) language derivation, and basically meant “To Cut” in medieval usage.

Hope this excursion into Language etymology is helpful.

Doc AV
AV Ballistics.[/quote]

Thanks a lot for your comments. Very helpfull info