New 130mm tank gun and ammo by Rheinmetall


#1

At the last Eurosatory in Paris Rheinmetall introduced it’s new 130mm tank gun and ammo.
The new weapon system will deliver 50% more energy than the well known 120mm. The gun is basically a modernized (including metallurgy) and upscaled 120mm.
The gun currently exists in one sample and the exhibited one was the true serial #1 and no mock up.
The gun will have an auto loader and is scheduled for the new MBT which is being currently developed and expected to be in service around 2035.

Jason, do you hear me?

defense-update.com/20160614_rhei … m-gun.html


#2

neat stuff.

Also perhaps other bits of interest on this were naval laser guns, look out Buck Rogers!


#3

Pete, I think lasers will be seen on land as well as air defense (CIWS) and defense against incoming projectiles is on the agenda of the kids and grand children of Buck Rogers.
Sadly there will be no ammo that can be researched anymore…


#4

True Alex, maybe by then I can get caught up with all the new stuff coming out these days, & actually have a complete collection of something!

in my dreams


#5

This is amazing, Alex!

THANK YOU SO MUCH for the awesome link! I am going to re-read that a 100 times! I have heard about experimental 140mm designs based on upscaled 120’s but not this 130mm system. So now I have to be on the hunt for inert 130mm APFSDS specimens :-) Holding breath … NOW! LOL

Jason


#6

Jason, as I understood from the Rheinmetall folks the gun was not even test fired by now. Means there are hardly any projectiles you could go for.
And as long as this one is being tested and developed basically nothing will leave the country so you have likely 10+ years at least untill items will start floating around - unless you get extremely lucky.

Personally I would be more interested in the new Russian 152mm tank gun ammo for the T-14 (by now it is still with the 125mm untill the 152mm will be available). So far not even images made it into the public.


#7

The German-French MGCS program won’t be further realized until at least 2025. Don’t hold your breath for too long.
I doubt the Russians will replace the 2A82 125mm guns on the already ordered 100 T-14 units with 2A83 152mm ones any time soon. Perhaps in some years when they have hit the original mark of ~2300 units as they expressed a wish to achieve.


#8

As mentioned above Rheinmetall expects the project to be in force (vehicles delivered) by ~2035.
To what I understood all is at the very beginning. I was not even able to find a diagram of the layout of the planned MBT.
All I have is verbal info.

And odd the T-14 was projected for the 152mm gund and it still seems not to be ready. Maybe their goals were too optimistic.


#9

Yeah, I read that. I referred to 2025 as I’ve heard this as an estimate for unveiling/concept release and “big scale testing” before, I didn’t refer to production and supplying of the finished vehicles. Of course I could very well be wrong though, I assume you have your sources. Mine is just that as well, verbal info, can’t back it up more than that.

The whole T-14 project in its current form seems too optimistic. The order number of Sukhoj PAK FA fighter has been shrunk several times, mostly due to issues with unit cost, expected maintenance costs, and the need of educating flight technicians/pilots on a whole new platform. Russia will of course keep a huge amount of their older Sukhoj models (27 and 35S variants).

I can only imagine the T-14 order will suffer a similar fate… with Russia’s pretty stunted economic state, it’s not likely we’ll see the 2300 T-14 unit order be fulfilled “very” soon. T-72s and T-90s will still be the grounds of their armoured units for years.


#10

Yes, good points!
Nowadays time schedules for larger weapon systems are a vage thing as we have seen with many projects in the past. Scheduled for one date and like 10 years after the deadline they are still not operational or procured…
I guess the MBT project is just too new to have anything said for a real adoption date.

I think the Russians are going through the same experience like the west did/does with sophisticated (i.e. complicated) weapons systems where more and more factors have to be observed and during the whole development/procurement process parameters are being changed for a multitude of reasons (not all logic and justified as we know).

T-14: It may depend on how politics and the geostrategic situ are developing. Sure Russia had issues with adopted systems which hardly ever made it into service. As things have developed in the past few years it well can lead to lots of newly adopted material. Maybe not in scale of cold war days but enough to have a sharp spear tip while the backbone will be the “older” and combat prooven material which is plentyfull around as we know.

Future will tell us.


#11

It’ll definitely be interesting to see how Russia will handle the procurement and manufacture of the Armata generation vehicles. MBT, several IFVs and APCs, MRAPs and Typhoon-program trucks, new MLRS and new SPG. Upgrading pretty much every type of vehicle they currently use. I can imagine it’s quite a lot to handle at a time, especially when most of it comes from different design bureaus and factories. Wonder how they will handle the introduction of a bunch of new guns, FCS and BMS, along with some of the vehicles using current models of such weapons (or just direct upgrades).

In Norway, we declined buying the Swedes’ Strv-122 (highly upgraded Leo 2A5 variant), since the guns were “too long for Norwegian battlefields”… instead, we’re waiting on a new BMS to be installed in our old 2A4NO MBTs and mix of old/new CV9040N IFV variants. Don’t think we’ll be the first buyers of the joint tank w/ 130mm gun!

“Time vil sjåv”


#12

I think Russia went very slow in the 1990s due to the situ in the country. In the 2000s they started to get back to orderly management (in all respects) and now as the fall of the USSR is about 25 years ago even the full depots are no real help as all material is outdated. This then + the Russians recently reclaiming their military role on an internatinal level made it neccessary to modernize (i.e. build new) their arsenal. Means there was/is a reform jam which now has to be dealt with. And as you say it is all at the same time - they must be very busy right now.

When it comes to ammunition we need to say that developments there are also ongoing plentyfull for all types.


#13

1990s did stop a lot of development, both in the Soviet bloc and the West. Things like the G11, for example. Imagine if the Bundeswehr had adopted G11 for frontline units and G41 for rear echelon/crew units instead of the G36? Then we wouldn’t have had to read about shifting metal trunnions in polymer receivers…

Yeah, regarding ammo, there are several new types of ammunition for the 2A82-1M gun - Vacuum-1 APFSDS, Telnik HE-Frag, and 3UBK21 Sprinter ATGM. For sure not the only ones we’ll see.
Curious how many of them, if any at all, might be backwards compatible with the 2A46M gun of the T-90AM and T-72B3M+older models? I know way too little about the details on ammo for Russian tank guns.
New MLRS and SPG will obviously have new types as well.

The new IFVs will use the regular 2A42 30mm guns, hopefully they will bring forth some new interesting variations.
Even the AK-12/AEK-545 programs might bring in some new 5,45, that’d be great. I just got 9x39, now I need to find the next holy grail of Russian rifle ammunition.


#14

Yes, the 1990s brought down many projects. If we had the G11 I wonder about which other problems would be written then. I assume the G11 in it’s complexity would have had many discussion points and issues. This we never will find out anymore.
This also reminds me of the “Marder 2” IFV which had the revolutionary 50mm RH 503 gun (bicaliber in 35mm/50mm). It got cancelled and never was adopted. Back then it was the most powerfull IFV gun in the world (actually still is). Instead we have a 30x173 today - that is Russian/Soviet standard (30x165) of about 40 years back…
By the way, this 50mm ammunition and also the G11 caseless design (the know how - not the exact copies of that ammo) is today marketed by US companies…

The 2A42 in 30x165 and all other of this series in the ground role (2A38 and 2A72) are subject to attempted modifications. Or better it was looked at calibers of 40mm and 45mm and I would not be surprised if recently even larger calibers were considered.
One other thought was to install the 57mm S-60 gun into IFVs and use the plentifull ammo stocks and also they developed a guided projectile with VT fuzing for this gun. On the latter there was an article in the German ECRA bulletin some years ago.

On the 125mm one can assume that new designs will be something that can be upscaled to 152mm if that is not done and considered already.


#15

[quote=“EOD”]
One other thought was to install the 57mm S-60 gun into IFVs and use the plentifull ammo stocks and also they developed a guided projectile with VT fuzing for this gun.[/quote]

Both manned and unmanned 57mm turrets have been fitted to medium AFVs for trial purposes, but I’ve not heard anything about new ammo for them yet. The guided projectile (which seemed to be only a paper project) aside, it’s still just contact-fuzed HE and full-calibre AP as far as I know.


#16

Tony, you may referr to the latest advertized version of TsNII Burevestnik (better known as “Uralvagonzavod”):
burevestnik.com/products/au220m.html

The data I was referring to is from the earlier days of this concept (same source).
The guided proj. there was described as VT fuzed what to be honest would make no sense otherwise.
Will post the diagram later on, Photobucket is down for maintenance right now.


#17

Ok, here it is:

#5 is denoting the antennas of the VT fuze.