New 5.8mm cartridge (DBP10)


#1

[color=#0000FF]from google translate[/color]
[color=#FF0000]I think the google translate may not pass the TOEFL test :)[/color]

Type DBP10 5.8mm ball bullet

Development
DBP95 type 5.8mm ball bullets and bullets DVP88 type 5.8mm machine is equipped with 95 military-style small-caliber gun family play a major species. Which, DBP95 ball bullet-style 5.8mm 5.8mm Type 95 class with a gun for family, for anti-close protection of the vital forces within the man; DVP88 style with 5.8mm bullets for machine guns and 88 general purpose 88-style sniper rifle for killing 800 ~ 1000m or important targets within the enemy’s effective strength. Operational effectiveness of these two different bullets, but appearance is basically the same, indistinguishable from the appearance, after reflecting prone to use force mix, and give care, training and operational supplies are inconvenience. In the 95 gun family to improve the design at the same time, the above two bullet “combined” design ideas have been put forward.
In June 2004, 95 gun family system, improved working conference in Beijing, 5.8mm new ammunition - DBP10 style 5.8mm ball bullet model development work was officially launched.
Program to form
DBP10 type 5.8mm bullet formation of the program is playing in 95 regular-style 5.8mm and 5.8mm type 88 machine on the basis of bullet design, and its development through the design, early prototype development, prototype identification and design is being finalized four stages. Overall design concept is “like an ordinary ballistic missiles, external ballistics bullet camera”, that is by adjusting the parameters so as to meet within 95 ballistic-type and 95-1 type 5.8mm gun class family, 88 general purpose machine guns, sniper rifles 88 different lengths and different lead the barrel of the ballistic performance requirements and operational requirements.
DBP10 play by the normal type 5.8mm bullet, cartridge cases, primers and propellants in four parts. Shell casings are painted steel and copper are two types of steel shells, the former equipped with rust-free season firing Burke drug at the end of the fire, only a mass of fire hole; the latter with a rust-free with the Boer Dan firing medicine at the end of the fire, there are two pass the fire hole, the hole transfer between the fire with the fire station. Two types of bullet casings exactly the same technical performance.
Design, external ballistics parameters through rational selection and optimization of the shape of shells, such as according to aerodynamic principles, the head curve of the warhead design into a particular shape (ie, spline head), so that the advantages of 5.8mm caliber bullet be fully realized.
Steel heart by reducing the diameter to increase the lead sheath thickness and other technical measures to improve the DBP10 type 5.8mm bullet warhead in-flight stability, meet in a different barrel lengths (lengths of 334mm, 463mm, 520mm, 557mm, 620mm), different lead barrel (lead, respectively 178mm, 210mm, 240mm) in firing bullets in-flight stability and density requirements, the successful realization of a bomb with a multi-gun requirements.
Bullet shell through the use of H90, effectively reducing the DBP10 type 5.8mm bullet shells in the chamber within the ordinary exercise wear and tear on the barrel, so barrel increased by 15% or more integrated life.
Successfully developed DBP10 ball bullet-style 5.8mm assault rifle equipped for short, can be anti-man protection within 300m of their remaining enemy targets; equipped for automatic rifles, killing 400m available within the protection of their remaining target man; with for classes with machine guns, can effectively kill a man within 600m of their remaining target protection, fire suppression point and light firearms; with 88 general purpose machine gun used to be exposed to the enemy within 1000m destruction and suppression of enemy infantry firepower; equipped for 88-style sniper rifle can be accurate within a single important goal of anti 800m.
Development experience: to tackle tough
5.8mm bullets in the development DBP10 style course, the development staff face technical problems one by one, through the analysis to explore, to be resolved to overcome, and ultimately to meet with a variety of weapons used for the performance.
Long-range ballistic performance issues
In the early external ballistics tests, there has been consistency 800m trajectory technical requirements difficult to meet the war and the power of penetration 1000m margin shortfall.
Analysis of the initial double-curved bullet head (R100/R40) design, the Ministry of warheads arc more “fat”, playing the shape coefficient of about 0.98, the air resistance during flight suffered a larger, resulting in placement of the low kinetic energy, 1000m at the placement of the kinetic energy of only 200 joules. External ballistics test results, 1000m at the penetration power of the margin is very small, 800m ballistic consistency is difficult to meet the requirements.
Technical measures to address this issue, re-design the shape of warheads. According to the aerodynamics, the warhead is designed to head a special curve shape, the Ministry of the program than the sharp long curved bullet, bomb-shaped coefficient of about 0.95, compared with 3% reduced the original program can effectively reduce the air resistance and improve impact point kinetic energy.
Effect through the implementation of these measures, the program warhead at head height, length and tail cone warhead mass, velocity and other parameters to maintain the original program under the same conditions, 1000m at the impact point than the original program to improve the kinetic energy of 20 joules or so, to ensure 1000m penetration results in improving the 800m ballistic consistency.
Gun / missile system matching
In the process of being prototype qualification test and found the gun / missile systems do not match. Does not match the type of specific performance is the use of 95 family 5.8mm gun fire, the fire intensity low pass; squad machine gun barrel life of only 12,000 made, issued less than 15 000 index requirements.
Analysis of the technical issues in-depth analysis and discussion and after many tests that: bullet in the barrel is the lack of stability in flight leading to the main fire intensity difference; bullet serious wear and tear on the barrel, causing the barrel reduced life expectancy.
After the discussion of technical measures, the proposed solutions are: to improve flight stability of their own bullets, to meet the 95 family-style 5.8mm gun class requirements; 5.8mm for 95-1 type class family through the rifled gun to re-design to adapt to DBP10 style 5.8mm ball bullets.
To this end, DBP10 style 5.8mm ball bullets designed to improve the implementation of the following technical measures.
Diameter from 4.1mm steel heart is reduced to 3.8mm, to increase the lead sheath thickness, the shortening of the length of warheads, warhead adjusted centroid, center of mass and resistance to narrow the distance between the heart, thereby reducing the rotational inertia of warheads in order to improve flight stability sex; warhead copper jacketed steel from the F11 to H90, reduce the wear on the barrel to increase barrel life; improved warhead warhead technology and ensure that all parts of the density of the assembly to further stabilize and improve the firings intensive degree.
The results are improving the program, the type of DBP10 carried a gun 5.8mm ball bullet / missile test match, test results showed that: 95 type and 95-1 in the class-type 5.8mm gun fire intensity on the family reaches the indicator; squad machine gun barrel life up to 20,000 hair.
Hot barrel spread a big problem
Copper-clad steel jacketed bullet from the F11 to H90 copper, the average point of impact consistency during the course of the experiment, there has been hot barrel firing, the point of impact spread, with a mean point of impact of poor shooting consistency defects.
Analysis The analysis that copper jacketed bullet caused large thermal spread is mainly due to the barrel jacketed bullet with the gun bore size does not match the pipeline caused. State in the hot barrel, barrel and bullet deformation occur simultaneously, the gun / bomb with the size of the original relationship between the affected changed, leading to the barrel of the warhead’s guidance Zhuance pressure smaller warhead rotation of the shackles of change small, bullet in the chamber and the muzzle of the rotation slowed down to the muzzle when the nutation (rotation angular velocity of rotation of the object is not big enough, its axis of symmetry in one plane swing, the swing that is nutation) become larger. In addition, compared with copper jacketed bullet, copper jacketed bullet bigger drop in hardness after heat, heat the barrel firing state more vulnerable to increased fire spread defect.
Number of technical measures rifled barrel increase from the 4 to 6 bar, scattered barrel rotational movement of the lead bullet Zhuance force; barrel diameters ranging from 5.8 ~ 5.84mm Yangxian adjusted to 5.82 ~ 5.86mm, with diameters ranging from 6.01 ~ 6.07 Yinxian mm adjusted to 5.98 ~ 6.02mm, reduced bore bullet embedded in the amount of movement. In addition, the 95-1 type 5.8mm automatic rifle automatic rifle and a short lead from the 240mm barrel adjusted to 210mm, with the same class with machine guns, bullet bore increases the rotation speed.
Effect through the implementation of these measures, DBP10 style 5.8mm shells to meet the ordinary rifle, short rifle, squad machine gun under the cold and hot state 100m barrel average deviation of the indicator point of impact, and spread in the hot barrel of the state have improved significantly.
Valuable breakthrough innovation
DBP10 type 5.8mm ball bullets after the end of arduous exploration success, the highlight of the performance of breakthrough innovations in the following aspects.
Achieve a “one bomb nine gun” universal design
Bullet serialization, universal design, to achieve “more than a bullet gun,” has always been ammunition designers strive to achieve. DBP10 type 5.8mm ball bullets successful development of the original DBP95 ball bullets and DVP88 style 5.8mm 5.8mm machine-style bullet “combined” into a reality, the missile can be common in the 95-1 family-style 5.8mm gun classes (3 guns), the 95 gun 5.8mm class family (a total of 3 guns), 88-style 5.8mm universal machine guns, sniper rifles and 88-style 5.8mm 5.8mm 03-style automatic rifles, and ammunition for the weapons production management, production line simplification, the usual storage, training, logistical supply wartime use are a great convenience. And kind in the world compared to small-caliber weapons and ammunition systems, DBP10 style 5.8mm overall technical performance of ordinary playing a leading position.
Improved understanding of copper jacketed bullet
In DBP10 type 5.8mm ball bullet warhead designs before the formation of the domestic small-caliber bullet shell bullet F11 copper steel materials are used, to meet the squad machine gun barrel life of 15,000 hair requirements, DBP10 shell type 5.8mm bullet changed the conventional warhead the bold use of the H90 copper. The resulting hot barrel state fire intensity significantly increased the firing defects, after repeated tests showed that heat the barrel size distribution in addition to state and barrel temperature on continuous shooting, but also with the diameter of the barrel of yin and yang lines , bore the number of lines, cross-sectional area and Yinxian warhead cross-sectional area ratio and other factors, this breakthrough in our understanding of light weapons, conventional design methods and concepts, light weapons and ammunition for the future of China’s research provides valuable theoretical basis.
Warhead for the first time using spline head
Conventional warhead design shape the past more than a single or double curved arc, and DBP10 type 5.8mm bullet warhead for the first time using spline head, that, according to aerodynamic theory, to calculate the discrete fitted into a multiple-point Department of the arc as the arc shape of warheads. The test proved, DBP10 style bullet spline coefficients warhead missile-shaped machine than the original DVP88 type 5.8mm bullet (warhead for the R100/R40 double arc shape) decreased by about 3%, more substantial increase in the kinetic energy warhead end, to ensure the end of the power of penetration and ballistic consistency.
Development of small-caliber bullets common at home and abroad is the first attempt. DBP10 style 5.8mm cartridge successful development of small arms ammunition shows that China has made a major breakthrough in design innovation. The performance of the tactical missile solved the muzzle on impulse, the end of penetration power, fire intensity, the contradiction between the role of reliability; technically better deal between the internal and external ballistics, ammunition and weapons , the relationship between structure and selection, showing the unity of tactics and technology, so the characteristics of small arms ammunition Kouqing been fully reflected.



#2

Nice to see you posting again!
The article is interesting, but difficult to read. Is the new cartridge still 5.8x42mm?


#3


#4

[quote=“jonnyc”]Nice to see you posting again!
The article is interesting, but difficult to read. Is the new cartridge still 5.8x42mm?[/quote]
yes, with a bullet to replace the original two bullets (DBP95 & DVP88), might have been inspired to improve 5.56NATO (Mk262 etc.)
one type projectile weight 4.6g (small steel core and more lead), brass jacket, two type primer, two type case (copper-clad steel and painted steel), barrel twist 210mm (about 1:8.27, I’m not sure)


#5

Tien Gulden Xiansheng,
Ni Hao.

Thank-you for the Google translation of the Putonghua article.

Whilst the Google translation is a bit garbled and “Chinglish”, I can follow most of the technical text and will be able to re-translate it into “Proper Ordnance English” as I have a little knowledge of “Ordnance Chinese”, and the way that Chinese language expresses Western Ordnance terminology

The development of the 5,8x42 cartridge has had a chequered history, with problems along the way of Powder type, Bullet design, Gun design etc.; maybe the developers of the Cartridge could have used some of the Empirical Handloading Knowledge from an Australian or American Ammunition and Shooting enthusiast. Theoretical scientific development is all very well in Industrial ammunition development, but usually Empirical Development arrives at better results more quickly (Based on practical considerations rather than dry theory.)

What intrigues me is that “5,8” calibre is equivalent to 0,228 inches in Imperial measurement, and that more than a Century ago, the diameter was used for a lot of “.22” type cartridges, as a Groove diameter.
Ie, the .22 Savage High Power used .228 Bullets, and had a .228 rifling groove diameter; the actual calibre (Bore) diameter was around .219-.220. This Bullet diameter gradually made way for the more prolific “22” with the .223 or .224 Diameter Bullet. The common 5,56x45 Cartridge uses a .219 Bore and a .224 Bullet ( “5,64mm”)

Are there any figures as to the “Bore and Groove” specifications of the Chinese 5,8mm Calibre Firearms barrel? I ask this, as in standard (World) Military terminology, "Bore==Calibre== Cartridge designation== Un-rifled diameter of barrel hole.

If the 5,8 cartridge holds to these rules, then the Bullet diameter is somewhere in the .232-233 Diameter area,(5,89-5,92mm)???

Back in 1996, at the Beijing Friendship Rifle Range, I had the opportunity to fire one of the Model 95 rifles ( I think the model that initially went to XiangGang (HKSAR) in 1997;) using blue-gray steel cased ammo.
I found the rifle easy to fire, despite its “Bull-Pup” design, and the shot-to-shot accuracy was reasonable. The Magazine features, being copied from those of the M16, were also OK, and the long distance of Ejection was particularly notable…I only managed to examine one empty shell, which hit part of the bay I was shooting in, and fell close by…the others were abouit 10-15 metres out on the range.

I think one problem is that the Chinese ordnance is trying to make one cartridge and rifle design fill a number of Disparate Roles, from SMG, Light MG, Sniping rifle, and Long distance rifle…In the past, many other nations have tried to make a “universal” firearm-cartridge combination, and all have failed, to a greater or lesser degree. Even the Russians (Former Soviet Union), a Nation known for its “Uniformity” principles in ordnance, has over the years, accepted that not all roles can be filled by a single Gun-Cartridge Combination. ( Hence the 7,62x39 Plus 7,62x54R separate uses, with the 7,62x39 now supplanted by the 5,45x39 cartridge.) The Americans have also found that a Binary system is essential, with 5,56x45 use for close combat, and 7,62x51 for Intermediate, specialised, and MG roles; The return of the 7,62x51 to General use is partly occasioned by the Nature of the Tactics in particular areas, such as Iraq and Afghanistan ( Both short range and Very Long range shooting is required.). Even the initially Private development of the 6,8x43 cartridge to fill the “Intermediate” area between general close combat and medium ranges which were not satisfied by the 5,56 cartridge, has not yet shown its value. There will probably be some shifting of the capability insomuch as range efficency is concerned, but there will always be a need for a 7,62mm calibre MG cartridge and Sniping cartridge. ( although the .338 Lapua (8,3mm) Sniping cartridges are increasing the effectiveness of sniping out to .50 calibre ranges.).

Thanks for the presentation of the article.

Zaijian,
Fan She-de
(Doc AV)
AV Ballistics Technical Services
Brisbane Australia.


#6

Doc Av - if you can translate this into better English, I assume you will post that translation here, for the benefit of all?


#7

[quote=“DocAV”]Tien Gulden Xiansheng,
Ni Hao.
…[/quote]
Un-rifled diameter of barrel hole = 5.98~6.02mm ≈ Bullet diameter 6mm
rifled diameter of barrel hole = 5.82~5.86mm = 5.8mm Calibre

Oh, “Uniformity” is a big problem, especially for the war. I think that any country would try to uniform firearms caliber, the question is … Where is the best caliber? 6.5, 7.9, .30, .280 British, 7.62/5.56NATO, 6mm XM732, 7.62/5.45, 5.8, 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel, .338 Lapua Magnum, .408 CheyTac, .50BMG … Which one? As you said, each have their own strengths and application, all depends on the target and the environment. I think 6mm is better caliber, Bullet diameter 6.2mm, Bullet weight 5g, Velocity 900m/s (460mm or 18’’ barrel).

For most countries, the calibre choice of USA or CCCP (although does not exist), the 5.8mm calibre may only be served in China. Although it can not penetrate Level IV body armor, but it can threaten the IBA (Interceptor Body Armor), that’s enough at least for now…


#8

better aerodynamic projectile weight 4.6g (small steel core and more lead), brass jacket, two type primer, two type case (copper-clad steel and painted steel), barrel twist 210mm (about 1:8.27, I’m not sure)
[color=#0000FF]oh, so concise, no one could not understand ;-)[/color]


#9

I very much agree. I always thought the Chinese had the right idea, but they just went a little too small.

www.g2mil.com/6mm_optimum_cartridge.htm


#10

I very much agree. I always thought the Chinese had the right idea, but they just went a little too small.

g2mil.com/6mm_optimum_cartridge.htm[/quote]
Unfortunately, we can only imagine, but that decision-makers do not think so :(


#11

Dear all,
I will attempt a “technical” rendition in English of the Google text, with the help of the Han text. It may take a few weeks, especially with my wife returning from a 6-months stay in Italy…

Tiengulden, as I read it, the Bore of the DBP is 5,8mm and the Projectile and Groove diameters are about 6,00 mm ( variable range).
That makes for Groove depth at 0,1mm ( or .040 inches,) which is pretty standard ( actually a bit deep for a smaller calibre…the .040" is more a 7,62 calibre rifling characteristic ( .300-.308).)

Anyway, I am cursed by the Chinese Philosophers…“I live in interesting times”.

Zaijian and best regards to all.
Fan She-de (Doc AV)


#12

In fact Groove depth between 0.1-0.16 mm, the deep grooves rifling and brass jacket will help to extend the barrel life.

Type 95-1 family including a short-barrel AR, AR and LMG, barrel length are 334mm, 463mm and 557mm. Six right-handed rifling (original is four), twist rate 210mm (original is 240mm).

[color=#0000FF]This article is in the public journals published by the review, most of them are no real sense of nonsense, so I did not carefully translated.[/color]


#13

This post shows the 5.8mm with both Boxer and Berdan primers. Do they come both ways ?


#14

What are the loads with black bullets ?


#15

Another question: is there any indication of which barrel length the MV of 915 m/s is achieved from? There’s quite a wide range of lengths in service, from the carbine through the rifle, LMG, DMR and GPMG.


#16

According to “official” sources the black bulleted loads are “heavy” loads for MG and sniper rifle.