New "7.62x39 Russian Tracer" Olin produced ammo and box


#1

I have come onto a ‘case’ of 1000 rounds of this stuff, in the pictured 10 round military style Olin packaging. It appears to be very recent production by the very bright and shiny brass and nice crisp boxes. This stuff came with no story, from a gun shop customer to use against a trade. There is no disclaimer, warnings, or barcode information on any of the boxes.

Anyone have any back story or information? If anyone wants one to section and post here, PM me your address.


#2

Does anybody know if this is commercial or a military/LE contract?


#3

While I have no positive information as to who or why this stuff was made, I have a great deal of trouble seeing Winchester producing tracer ammunition commercially. I think the market would be small, mostly limited to the “boy commando” group. Many states, I think, outlaw it or control it in one way or another. If for LE, it would probably be for some other country. I don’t think many Police Departments in the USA use tracer ammunition. If they do, they should be ashamed of themselves due to the possibility of causing fires. I can see NO legitimate police use for this type of ammunition, myself. It is like the urban police departments that have Barrett .50 caliber rifles, like anti-gun Los Angeles. We all know what a .50 can do, penetration and distance of travel, and the hazards that poises in an urban environment. Police use in urban situations is unconsciencable.

But then, in the country today, who knows?


#4

John, thanks for your insight. Interesting cartridges then indeed!


#5

I hope I’m wrong but these doesn’t look like a factory product to me. There are several special loadings of recent manufacture using newly made boxes imitating styles from other manufacturers.


#6

[quote=“JohnMoss”]While I have no positive information as to who or why this stuff was made, I have a great deal of trouble seeing Winchester producing tracer ammunition commercially. I think the market would be small, mostly limited to the “boy commando” group. Many states, I think, outlaw it or control it in one way or another. If for LE, it would probably be for some other country. I don’t think many Police Departments in the USA use tracer ammunition. If they do, they should be ashamed of themselves due to the possibility of causing fires. I can see NO legitimate police use for this type of ammunition, myself. It is like the urban police departments that have Barrett .50 caliber rifles, like anti-gun Los Angeles. We all know what a .50 can do, penetration and distance of travel, and the hazards that poises in an urban environment. Police use in urban situations is unconsciencable.

But then, in the country today, who knows?[/quote]

I thing the ‘‘boy commando’’ would have direct access to the military ammo tech and tracer are normally link.
We have to agree with you a .50 in urban environment is a very dangerous situation even with special short range ammo


#7

10rds is a very odd quantity, except in the case of a few online retailers like Firequest who sell tracers for very high prices in small quantity like this. Using a Winchester package style to look authentic wouldn’t surprise me. Hitechammotogo.com sells a ten rd quantity of 7.62x39 tracers, and their description at this link describes it in the same way as the above package with spaces as: 7.62 x 39 Russian http://www.hitechammotogo.com/html/tracer_ammunition.html


#8

I wouldn’t exactly call it recent production. Here in the midwest during the 80’s and 90’s you’d find 1-2 dealers selling this stuff at gun shows, every weekend. 7.62x39, 5.56, 7.62, 45 ACP, 9mm, etc. Some marked green tracer, some incendiary, etc. As I recall, the 5.56 Incendiary had additional markings saying Wolf River or something similar, unlike the other calibers which were just marked like the photos. Precisely the same packaging, brown box, black printing, no other indications, 10 rounds/box. It was pricey, which explained why it was only sold 10 rounds to a box. The green tracer, for example was the exact same box, but with the words “Green Tracer” in green ink, rubber stamped onto the box.

Some aftermarket manufacturer, not WCC, or LC, etc.


#9

I would be interested to know if the bullets are of .308 or .311-ish diameter.


#10

The tip color is similar to the Hirtenberger manufactured 7.62x51mm tracer. See: gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt … =382574224


#11

Galep - when I use the term “Boy Commando” I am not speaking of real soldiers. I am speaking of the crowd that like to dress up in camoflage and go out and play at war but with real guns and real ammunition, getting ready for ??? My experience is that few of them have ever served in any real military in their lives. Always exceptions, but most people who have served, especially those who served in combat, tend to look upon them as not-so-funny clowns. Just my view based on years of going to gun shows, and selling guns and ammunition for a living in a large, legitimate gun shop. Thank God we didn’t have too many of them for customers.


#12

The Print Font and Layout style of the Cartons Yells “Sellier & Bellot”…similar (Very) to the Light Blue Packets of .308 Ball ammo made in the 1970s and 80s

Since Winchester gets a lot of its “Soviet” Ammo made by S&B ( which, BTW, is now owned by CBC-Magtech), this would be a Winchester Headstamped cartridge in a Plain S&B Packet…for Export sales

Doc AV


#13

Mid 1990’s domestic manufacture from Wolf River( Kentucky). Bullet jackets were manufactured by Hornady with cannelure in correct location, (diameter was .310")made into tracer and loaded by Wolf River. Color of trace was red (R284), igniter was dim (I-194). These were also assembled with USGI M62 tracer bullets, with an extra cannelure added, (.308") and sold in the same packaging. Powder was generally WCC680. You would have to pull one down to see which projectile is loaded in these. I know the manufacture. JH


#14

Jim, great information, thank you very much. I have seen Wolf River military style boxes in 5.56x45 tracer, incendiary and API loadings, but these are marked “Wolf River Ammunition Plant” and hold 20 rounds. Do you have a pricelist, checklist or more information about the ammunition loaded by this company? What was their relation with C&T Enterprises Inc. of Tucson?


#15

Sorry Fede, no price list on their ammo. They have not produced anything in some time (10+ years?). C&T boxed quite a few exotic loadings in there own boxes, similar to the one showen ,but more often in 5 round plastic packs with label. Walt bought and repacked ammo from many manufactures, both domestic & military. JH
PS: I wanted to add that ST tracer bullets were also loaded on the Hornady 7.62x39 jackets. This was a wet paste tracer mixture that was allowed to dry in the cavity. Both of the companies (ST & Wolf River) used W-W factory primed 7.62x39 case almost exclusively.


#16

Jim, thanks for your help.


#17

As requested, here is some data. I found an interesting logo on a tab of the box closure.


#18

Any input on that logo specifically?


#19

Anyone? Is it LESI or LECI? -Thanks


#20

Possibly the label printing company rather than the ammo manufacturing company.
Similar size logos (of different companies) appear on many ammunition packets in non obvious locations like the end flaps or even under sections of label that would normally be covered.