New 9mm from Pobjeda

#1

It looks like over the past several days that 100rd canned 115gr FMJ labeled as “Pobjeda Technology” is showing up with a few sellers. This is from Pobjeda Goražde out of Bosnia-Herzogovina, and is technically owned by Ulyanovsk. The bullet is described as non-magnetic (has a brass color jacket), and the case is plated steel and boxer-primed. The sellers I have noticed who have it in stock are: Slickguns, Luckygunner, LAXammo, and Centerfire systems. The quantity per lot at Slickguns & Luckygunner comes only as 1000rds, whereas Centerfire Systems, and LAX have it in 100 or 1000, of which LAX has the best price at $189.00 per 1000 of all 4. The 100rd can prices are $19.95. Slickguns did a bunch of sponsored-user forum posts all over the internet on Dec. 24th advertising the arrival of this stuff on their site, and these will litter search results if you Google for it. Headstamp appears to be: POBJEDA 9mm LUGER according to the photo at Centerfiresystems shown below. I will find out for sure when I receive the can that I ordered, but in the photos I’ve seen so far, the bullet seems to have an odd ogive.

On a side-note; with all the sanctions going on with Russia lately concerning firearms, is the ammunition being affected yet, and if so, I wonder if something like this would slip through being from Bosnia, even though it is majority owned by a Russian firm?

Screenshot2014-12-28at71822PM_zps5ce3ac85.png735x581

#2

Matt, interesting to see this connection and the details as “POBJEDA” (PG) is the first time used on headstamps.
I do not know why Ulyanovsk (UPZ) is mentioned as it belongs itself to Tula Cartridge Works (TCW).
Also interesting to see that TCW is having it’s brass cased ammo made by PG and is (in return?) supplying PG with steel cases.

#3

I mentioned Ulyanovsk because of the article I found here while I was searching for retailers of this ammo in the U.S… It is dated October, 2013:

http://ekapija.ba/en/Vijest/capital/russians-approved-acquisition-of-50-plus-one-share-in-pobjeda-gorazde/30861

I had seen mention of the BrassMaxx brass coming from Pobjeda, and I assume that is what you mean for Tula? I don’t know the details on that, or how complex the brass & steel case supply switching between these three is / was.

#4

Thanks for the link! It has some good background info.

#5

Today I received the 100rd can of Pobjeda 9mm I had ordered. The can itself is plastic, and the first thing I did was count the rds which came out to 102 - so far so good for a 100rd can. I checked all of the cases & projectiles and they all look sound. The one thing - and it’s relatively pretty bad - is the headstamp condition. Mind you, it’s probably just an aesthetic thing, but the headstamp condition was terrible on most of them, with many weak strikes, and wash-outs of letter pieces probably caused by bits of metal or dirt in the bunter (I guess?). The “O” “B” “D” and “E” on the top seemed to suffer the worst, with the bottom half “9mm LUGER” usually making out alright, except for the occasional “G” problem.

Below is the can, next to a battery for scale, showing front, back & top, and then the headstamps. The one headstamp by itself shown first is the best condition one out of the 102rds, and was hard to find. The rest is a lineup of headstamps to show the typical problems with the bunter. The only real Q.C. issue was the first one on the left with the major scrape, and the rest are lined up roughly in order of worst to best from left to right, top row first. On a couple you get half of the letter O and the top of E completely missing, so it makes for fun error finding anyway.

pobjeda9mmheadstamplist_zps9b8471a0.jpg1024x369

The base of the bullet is a typical flat lead core, but the flash hole inside the case did catch my eye. Is it me or is that a relatively huge flash hole for a 9x19 (shown at far left)? The three “legs” of the primer are clearly visible which I don’t recall as normal, and so to compare I lined it up against a JAG case (center), and an HPR case (right), which look to have normal smaller flash holes.

#6

I have a full can of this coming myself, but it has not arrived yet. Now, I am a little regretful that I ordered it! Hope I can find a decent specimen for my collection, which if headstamp-oriented, out of the lot.

That is a big flash hole. It appears to be as big as that of cases made for shooting wax and ultra lightweight plastic bullets using only the primer for propellant. Some copper-washed, brass case .38 S&W cases made, I was told, for a Government agency for indoor shooting. come to mind.

I wonder how a flash hole like that affects pressures?

I think I will refrain from shooting up the surplus in the can in my nice Browning, like I use to do when I bought a lot of full boxes just for a couple of rounds and the cardboard!

#7

I just noticed on Cheaperthandirt that there is also a brass-cased version of this ammo. Oddly, C.T.D. seems to have poached their own existing link location of brass-cased Tulammo (brassmaxx) and just changed the photos & description since all of the customer reviews from the past couple years are still there, but they reflect discussion on the Tula ammo. So apparently either C.T.D. or the distributor where it came from, categorizes this as some sort of analogue or replacement for that line. They are somewhat linked in terms of component sharing as discussed earlier in the thread. The price on these runs about $4.00 more per 100 as compared to the plated steel cases.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/AMM-4205

#8

Thanks! Will be interesting to see what the hst is!

Cheers,
Lew

#9

[quote=“Lew”]Thanks! Will be interesting to see what the hst is!

Cheers,
Lew[/quote]

Checking out CTD’s website it appears that it has the same headstamp:
POBJEDA 9mm LUGER

#10

If images become available it would be great to see the hs on brass cases.

#11

I received a 100rd plastic can of the brass cased version of this today. I counted exactly 100, and this time the headstamp quality was excellent, very unlike the nickel-plated steel case version. The interesting thing was that there appears to be two style of the same headstamp. Of the 100 I have, 24 are fat letters, and 76 are thin letters. The “thin” letter version looks similar to the nickel-plated style (although there is a space between the “mm” and “luger”), but the fat version is much different. There was no middle-ground either, as in a range of letter fatness, they were completely one style or the other. I wonder if it was a random bunter strike strength, or if they have multiple production lines with bunters of different wear filtering cartridges into the same bins?

#12

Matt, there is no “bunter strike strength” as the hs is created during one of the last draw stages. Means it is not a question of applied force or the like. The effect you see here is from two different bunters.
Thanks a lot for posting these images!

#13

Thanks DK, I went through my can and found only 3 of the thick line rounds. I would have missed them entirely without your headsup.

Cheers,
Lew

#14

And now, a third version of this ammo is released (actual cartridges may be the same as the initial plated steel case version?) with branding that seems to meld the Tula BrassMAXX, and Pobjeda lines, marketed as Pobjeda “Maxxtech”, seen only at Cheaperthandirt at the moment, and unfortunately only in 1000rd cases:

#15

I suppose it has the same POBJEDA headstamp too.

#16

One would assume so, but then I wonder if the quality control issues on the steel-case headstamp are resolved, or if any interesting variation like the “fat letter” / “skinny letter”, such as found on the brass case version will exist? We’ve seen headstamps altered for seemingly lesser reasons than this branding shift.

#17

I came across this video which shows a tour of the Pobjeda ammo plant (from 1:45 to the end of video). The workers seem keen to point out their Fritz Werner brand manufacturing equipment, and at the 2:54 mark you can see a worker filling a Tula “Brassmaxx” brand can:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=navPj7fwgx0

Also, Natchez has picked up the new Maxxtech line, and is selling as 50ct quantity, which doesn’t make sense as far as the known 100rd cans, but they are listed as out of stock in any case, and should be in soon:
http://www.natchezss.com/maxxtech-9mm-115gr-fmj-50rd-brass-case.html

#18

Matt, thanks, I had not seen this one, but I remember of another one where everybody starts dancing inside the factory! The one you posted is definitely more illustrative.

By the way, last year I saved copies of several videos by Igman with some brief but very revealing moments. For example, you can see 9 mm Parabellum cases headstamped MKE 9P 14 (red primer sealant) and also when their employees are filling MKE boxes. This fits with one of the tenders for these Turkish cartridges won by Igman in 2014.

Another surprise was seeing a couple of ladies assembling 5.56x45 M855 cartridge boxes made in 2014 for SME in Malaysia.

Regards,

Fede

#19

Fede, are these videos still online? Maybe you have the links?

#20

Alex, I don’t have the links but these are the titles of the videos as I saved them. You may try to find these using your video browser/downloader service.

  • “Procvat namjenske industrije u Federaciji - Igman sklopio petogodišnji ugovor” (August 25, 2013)
  • “Igman iz Konjica je primjer kako se treba raditi u BiH” (September 11, 2014)
  • “U Igmanu do kraja naredne godine još stotinu novih radnika” (September 11, 2014)
  • “Igman d-d- Konjic” (September 29, 2014)
  • “PD Igman Konjic” - Klix.ba (March 11, 2015)
  • “Zavirite u tvornicu municije u Konjicu, žilu kucavicu BiH” (March 18, 2015)

Regards,

Fede