New ammunition regulations in NY


#1

It looks like all of NY State will suffer the wrath of anti-gun / anti-ammo votes that stem mostly from NY City politicians, and Gov. Cuomo. Their new law which just passed the state Senate yesterday calls for enhanced penalties on gun crimes, but also further restricts the manner in which private gun & ammo sales may happen, and amazingly bans any magazine over 7rds. Magazines that are 10rds or less can be grandfathered in, but if you are found to have more than 7rds loaded in one, you are in trouble. Magazines that are over 10rds (specifically 30rd AR & AK mags) must be sold out of state, send out of state, turned into police, or destroyed within one year unless you have an FFL license. (This would really stink if you are a gun collector with a Pederson-device mag for an 03 Springfield in NY!)

The important ammunition parts of the law are that all ammunition purchases now have real-time background checks involved to some extent, and any high-quantity purchase is to be reported (details are scant on what the quantity is, or whether .22lr is included in that). Also, all internet purchases are essentially banned as people now need to do the transaction in-person, or else have the ammo sent to a dealer and presumably pay a transfer fee as one would with a firearm transfer, making it unrealistically expensive. This can really hurt collectors who might buy single odd cartridges online, or single boxes which are collectible only. It’s too bad they didn’t put some type of 03C&R or ammo collector provision in there.
I assume that deactivated hole-drilled cartridges for collectors are not included in the above interpretation.

A link with info is here, and can also be seen in all the online news sites today:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/120400946/Cuomo-gun-bill-fact-sheet


#2

There are so many questions about the legislation that it is mind boggling. I suppose it is another case of, “we have to pass it to see what’s in it.” It’s sure to be challenged in court and it could be years before a final decision is reached.

Ray


#3

I wonder if there is any mention of reloading components?


#4

I was shocked to see that there was no provision to give their current “cop-killer” ammo law (§ 265.01 ) more teeth on pistol-caliber AP ammo. New York is one of the many states with what I call a toothless “fluff law” regarding pistol AP ammo, in that they have a law which states that criminals who are arrested during the course of a crime who are found to be in possession of such ammo are in violation of the AP ammo law - so that sort of only enhances the penalty on an already apprehended felony suspect anyway. In recent years they have continually had legislation brought up by different reps to enhance the law so that it would ban possession outright for anyone, similar to IL and CA. The most recent one that I know of was in 2007 and was Bill number: A03447 / S02002 which would ban possession of AP pistol caliber ammo with cores made entirely of listed metals (not 5.7x28mm or similar types) and would also ban exploding and frangible ammunition.

Why environmentally-friendly / low-ricochet frangible ammunition needed to be lumped in with exploders and penetrators in that proposal, is beyond me.


#5

Matt…When do these new regs take effect ?

Randy


#6

I think our NY members should start making plans to attend the two PA and the NH cartridge shows, at least for the foreseeable future!
Collectors of belts and other feed devices will have to be careful not to fall prey to these foolish restrictions.


#7

I second Jon’s warning.

An old 7.7 Japanese feed tray in NY with cartridges intact could be construed as a “magazine holding more than 7rds”, and the way their zero-tolerance attitudes work towards guns & ammo these days I wouldn’t be surprised if they hammered hard on somebody like that. I’m not sure how they would ever find them out, but be careful anyway.


#8

Has ANY suspect ever actually been found with this “cop-killer” ammunition? I wouldn’t be surprised if they have never had a single one.


#9

Falcon,

As of some years ago, when I was far more up on gun statistics and laws etc. than I am now, not one single police officer in the United States had ever been shot thru his vest with KTW type ammunition. So much for the media and government bulls…t hype about cop killer bullets.
Do the politicians know that? Sure they do, but since they are mostly liars about just about everything they deal with, is it a surprise when it makes such a convenient whipping boy?

Personally, I see no particular use for any of that type of ammo, other than collecting it, which we can’t do in California anyway, but the fact I see no use for it doesn’t give the cartridges a soul and doesn’t endow them with great powers just short of the Hydrogen bomb.

One officer in the San Francisco Bay area was shot in the jaw with KTW or some other kind of “special purpose” ammunition, and suffered some pretty severe damage, but the gun used was his, just taken away from him by a perp. Should any police officer carry ammunition in his gun that can punch his own BP vest? NO, of course not, especially at the rate they lose their guns to felons.


#10

This morning, I made a sizeable (for me) contribution to the NRA. It’s going to be a long and expensive fight as this outrage spreads. All of our US members should consider doing likewise.


#11

assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?de … o=Y&Text=Y

If you want to read the legalese here it is. This is such an ignorantly written piece of legislation that it is mind boggling to think that a re-hashed /enhanced version of 2 sections of the penal law that didn’t work before will work now, is absurd. I spent 35 years in the firearms business both retail and wholesale having to deal with on again, off again restriction on ammunition sales in this state that I suspect they will find the ammo sales unenforceable as before. There is also no funding for the enforcement and bureaucratic red tape this will entail. This is one of the many reasons I am moving from this state in the coming year.


#12

I heard something interesting yesterday about cigarettes in New York State. Estimates are that up to 60% of the cigarettes consumed in the state are smuggled in, due to the absurdly high state tobacco tax. I imagine the same thing will happen with ammunition in response to the new statute. So much for any belief that New York laws are drafted logically, and can be enforced. I expect there will be an increased emigration of New York residents to friendlier (and cheaper) states south of the Mason-Dixon line.

Makes me wish and hope that Texas will secede.


#13

This legislation is the most outrageous thing I have ever heard of. When I first read about this I got so mad I shook. This is ridiculous. The New York legislators are screaming idiots. They have no idea what they are doing. ?!you can be arrested because you have a magazine in your house with over seven rounds?! !what, are you kidding me! I will have to say that I respect the people on this forum that can calmly discuss this lunacy. It makes me so mad that I have a hard time composing this Posting, my hands are trembling I am so angry.


#14

WARNING: The imminent federal legislation will probably be a similar complex package of stuff, worked on behind the scenes, then introduced and declared an emergency needing immediate passage, and passed in the wee hours of the night, with few members actually having read it. IT IS IMPERATIVE TO CONTACT YOUR CONGRESSIONAL DELEGATION NOW-TODAY- and tell them “No new gun laws, period! None- these will not make any one safer. You don’t protect honest people by disarming them!.”

Details of the New York bill, as passed and signed today:

The ammunition garbage is in Section 50, that starts on page 35 at line 39. The numbers on the left side are line numbers on each page.
Per the “effective date” section at the end of the bill, the ammunition section becomes effective one year from passage (so it will be effective 15 January, 2014).

39 S 50. The penal law is amended by adding a new section 400.03 to read
40 as follows:
41 S 400.03 SELLERS OF AMMUNITION.
42 1. A SELLER OF AMMUNITION AS DEFINED IN SUBDIVISION TWENTY-FOUR OF
43 SECTION 265.00 OF THIS CHAPTER SHALL REGISTER WITH THE SUPERINTENDENT OF
44 STATE POLICE IN A MANNER PROVIDED BY THE SUPERINTENDENT. ANY DEALER IN
45 FIREARMS THAT IS VALIDLY LICENSED PURSUANT TO SECTION 400.00 OF THIS
46 ARTICLE SHALL NOT BE REQUIRED TO COMPLETE SUCH REGISTRATION.
47 2. ANY SELLER OF AMMUNITION OR DEALER IN FIREARMS SHALL KEEP A RECORD
48 BOOK APPROVED AS TO FORM BY THE SUPERINTENDENT OF STATE POLICE. IN THE
49 RECORD BOOK SHALL BE ENTERED AT THE TIME OF EVERY TRANSACTION INVOLVING
50 AMMUNITION THE DATE, NAME, AGE, OCCUPATION AND RESIDENCE OF ANY PERSON
51 FROM WHOM AMMUNITION IS RECEIVED OR TO WHOM AMMUNITION IS DELIVERED, AND
52 THE AMOUNT, CALIBRE, MANUFACTURER’S NAME AND SERIAL NUMBER, OR IF NONE,
53 ANY OTHER DISTINGUISHING NUMBER OR IDENTIFICATION MARK ON SUCH AMMUNI-
54 TION. THE RECORD BOOK SHALL BE MAINTAINED ON THE PREMISES MENTIONED AND
55 DESCRIBED IN THE LICENSE AND SHALL BE OPEN AT ALL REASONABLE HOURS FOR
56 INSPECTION BY ANY PEACE OFFICER, ACTING PURSUANT TO HIS OR HER SPECIAL
S. 2230 35 A. 2388

1  DUTIES, OR POLICE OFFICER.  ANY RECORD PRODUCED PURSUANT TO THIS SECTION
2  AND  ANY  TRANSMISSION  THEREOF  TO  ANY  GOVERNMENT AGENCY SHALL NOT BE
3  CONSIDERED A PUBLIC RECORD FOR PURPOSES OF ARTICLE  SIX  OF  THE  PUBLIC
4  OFFICERS LAW.
5    3.  NO  LATER  THAN  THIRTY DAYS AFTER THE SUPERINTENDENT OF THE STATE
6  POLICE CERTIFIES THAT THE STATEWIDE LICENSE AND RECORD  DATABASE  ESTAB-
7  LISHED PURSUANT TO SECTION 400.02 OF THIS ARTICLE IS OPERATIONAL FOR THE
8  PURPOSES  OF  THIS  SECTION,  A  DEALER IN FIREARMS LICENSED PURSUANT TO
9  SECTION 400.00 OF THIS ARTICLE, A SELLER OF  AMMUNITION  AS  DEFINED  IN

10 SUBDIVISION TWENTY-FOUR OF SECTION 265.00 OF THIS CHAPTER SHALL NOT
11 TRANSFER ANY AMMUNITION TO ANY OTHER PERSON WHO IS NOT A DEALER IN
12 FIREARMS AS DEFINED IN SUBDIVISION NINE OF SUCH SECTION 265.00 OR A
13 SELLER OF AMMUNITION AS DEFINED IN SUBDIVISION TWENTY-FOUR OF SECTION
14 265.00 OF THIS CHAPTER, UNLESS:
15 (A) BEFORE THE COMPLETION OF THE TRANSFER, THE LICENSEE OR SELLER
16 CONTACTS THE STATEWIDE LICENSE AND RECORD DATABASE AND PROVIDES THE
17 DATABASE WITH INFORMATION SUFFICIENT TO IDENTIFY SUCH DEALER OR SELLER,
18 TRANSFEREE BASED ON INFORMATION ON THE TRANSFEREE’S IDENTIFICATION DOCU-
19 MENT AS DEFINED IN PARAGRAPH © OF THIS SUBDIVISION, AS WELL AS THE
20 AMOUNT, CALIBRE, MANUFACTURER’S NAME AND SERIAL NUMBER, IF ANY, OF SUCH
21 AMMUNITION;
22 (B) THE SYSTEM PROVIDES THE LICENSEE OR SELLER WITH A UNIQUE IDENTIFI-
23 CATION NUMBER; AND
24 © THE TRANSFEROR HAS VERIFIED THE IDENTITY OF THE TRANSFEREE BY
25 EXAMINING A VALID STATE IDENTIFICATION DOCUMENT OF THE TRANSFEREE ISSUED
26 BY THE DEPARTMENT OF MOTOR VEHICLES OR IF THE TRANSFEREE IS NOT A RESI-
27 DENT OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK, A VALID IDENTIFICATION DOCUMENT ISSUED BY
28 THE TRANSFEREE’S STATE OR COUNTRY OF RESIDENCE CONTAINING A PHOTOGRAPH
29 OF THE TRANSFEREE.
30 4. IF THE DATABASE DETERMINES THAT THE PURCHASER OF AMMUNITION IS
31 ELIGIBLE TO POSSESS AMMUNITION PURSUANT TO STATE AND FEDERAL LAWS, THE
32 SYSTEM SHALL:
33 (A) ASSIGN A UNIQUE IDENTIFICATION NUMBER TO THE TRANSFER; AND
34 (B) PROVIDE THE LICENSEE OR SELLER WITH THE NUMBER.
35 5. IF THE STATEWIDE LICENSE AND RECORD DATABASE NOTIFIES THE LICENSEE
36 OR SELLER THAT THE INFORMATION AVAILABLE TO THE DATABASE DOES NOT DEMON-
37 STRATE THAT THE RECEIPT OF AMMUNITION BY SUCH OTHER PERSON WOULD VIOLATE
38 18 U.S.C. 922(G) OR STATE LAW, AND THE LICENSEE TRANSFERS AMMUNITION TO
39 SUCH OTHER PERSON, THE LICENSEE SHALL INDICATE TO THE DATABASE THAT SUCH
40 TRANSACTION HAS BEEN COMPLETED AT WHICH POINT A RECORD OF SUCH TRANS-
41 ACTION SHALL BE CREATED WHICH SHALL BE ACCESSIBLE BY THE DIVISION OF
42 STATE POLICE AND MAINTAINED FOR NO LONGER THAN ONE YEAR FROM POINT OF
43 PURCHASE, WHICH SHALL NOT BE INCORPORATED INTO THE DATABASE ESTABLISHED
44 PURSUANT TO SECTION 400.02 OF THIS ARTICLE OR THE REGISTRY ESTABLISHED
45 PURSUANT TO SUBDIVISION SIXTEEN-A OF SECTION 400.00 OF THIS ARTICLE. THE
46 DIVISION OF STATE POLICE MAY SHARE SUCH INFORMATION WITH A LOCAL LAW
47 ENFORCEMENT AGENCY. EVIDENCE OF THE PURCHASE OF AMMUNITION IS NOT
48 SUFFICIENT TO ESTABLISH PROBABLE CAUSE TO BELIEVE THAT THE PURCHASER HAS
49 COMMITTED A CRIME ABSENT OTHER INFORMATION TENDING TO PROVE THE COMMIS-
50 SION OF A CRIME. RECORDS ASSEMBLED OR ACCESSED PURSUANT TO THIS SECTION
51 SHALL NOT BE SUBJECT TO DISCLOSURE PURSUANT TO ARTICLE SIX OF THE PUBLIC
52 OFFICERS LAW. THIS REQUIREMENT OF THIS SECTION SHALL NOT APPLY (I) IF A
53 BACKGROUND CHECK CANNOT BE COMPLETED BECAUSE THE SYSTEM IS NOT OPERA-
54 TIONAL AS DETERMINED BY THE SUPERINTENDENT OF STATE POLICE, OR WHERE IT
55 CANNOT BE ACCESSED BY THE PRACTITIONER DUE TO A TEMPORARY TECHNOLOGICAL
56 OR ELECTRICAL FAILURE, AS SET FORTH IN REGULATION, OR (II) A DEALER OR
S. 2230 36 A. 2388

1  SELLER  HAS  BEEN GRANTED A WAIVER FROM CONDUCTING SUCH BACKGROUND CHECK
2  IF THE SUPERINTENDENT OF STATE POLICE DETERMINES  THAT  SUCH  DEALER  IS
3  INCAPABLE  OF  SUCH  CHECK DUE TO TECHNOLOGICAL LIMITATIONS THAT ARE NOT
4  REASONABLY  WITHIN  THE  CONTROL  OF  THE  DEALER,  OR OTHER EXCEPTIONAL
5  CIRCUMSTANCES DEMONSTRATED BY THE DEALER, PURSUANT TO A  PROCESS  ESTAB-
6  LISHED IN REGULATION, AND AT THE DISCRETION OF SUCH SUPERINTENDENT.
7    6.  IF  THE  SUPERINTENDENT  OF STATE POLICE CERTIFIES THAT BACKGROUND
8  CHECKS OF AMMUNITION PURCHASERS MAY BE CONDUCTED  THROUGH  THE  NATIONAL
9  INSTANT CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECK SYSTEM, USE OF THAT SYSTEM BY A DEALER

10 OR SELLER SHALL BE SUFFICIENT TO SATISFY SUBDIVISIONS FOUR AND FIVE OF
11 THIS SECTION AND SUCH CHECKS SHALL BE CONDUCTED THROUGH SUCH SYSTEM,
12 PROVIDED THAT A RECORD OF SUCH TRANSACTION SHALL BE FORWARDED TO THE
13 STATE POLICE IN A FORM DETERMINED BY THE SUPERINTENDENT.
14 7. NO COMMERCIAL TRANSFER OF AMMUNITION SHALL TAKE PLACE UNLESS A
15 LICENSED DEALER IN FIREARMS OR REGISTERED SELLER OF AMMUNITION ACTS AS
16 AN INTERMEDIARY BETWEEN THE TRANSFEROR AND THE ULTIMATE TRANSFEREE OF
17 THE AMMUNITION FOR THE PURPOSES OF CONTACTING THE STATEWIDE LICENSE AND
18 RECORD DATABASE PURSUANT TO THIS SECTION. SUCH TRANSFER BETWEEN THE
19 DEALER OR SELLER, AND TRANSFEREE MUST OCCUR IN PERSON.
20 8. A SELLER OF AMMUNITION WHO FAILS TO REGISTER PURSUANT TO THIS
21 SECTION AND SELLS AMMUNITION, FOR A FIRST OFFENSE, SHALL BE GUILTY OF A
22 VIOLATION AND SUBJECT TO THE FINE OF ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS AND FOR A
23 SECOND OFFENSE, SHALL BE GUILTY OF A CLASS A MISDEMEANOR.
24 A SELLER OF AMMUNITION THAT FAILS TO KEEP ANY RECORD REQUIRED PURSUANT
25 TO THIS SECTION, FOR A FIRST OFFENSE SHALL BE GUILTY OF A VIOLATION AND
26 SUBJECT TO A FINE OF FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS, AND FOR A SECOND OFFENSE
27 SHALL BE GUILTY OF A CLASS B MISDEMEANOR, AND THE REGISTRATION OF SUCH
28 SELLER SHALL BE REVOKED.


#15

[quote=“DennisK”]I heard something interesting yesterday about cigarettes in New York State. Estimates are that up to 60% of the cigarettes consumed in the state are smuggled in, due to the absurdly high state tobacco tax. I imagine the same thing will happen with ammunition in response to the new statute. So much for any belief that New York laws are drafted logically, and can be enforced. I expect there will be an increased emigration of New York residents to friendlier (and cheaper) states south of the Mason-Dixon line.

Makes me wish and hope that Texas will secede.[/quote]

The cigarette smuggling is open and endorsed by the feds and NYS tax dept. Even supported by the USPS by allowing non-taxed cigarettes to be shipped by the postal service. If you were use the postal service to evade taxes or otherwise commit fraud, you would be arrested for mail fraud. The Indian Reservation cigarette sales (within NYS) are the smugglers. The USPS does nothing to stop the blatant evasion of taxes. Please don’t offend the aboriginal americans. The same neglect of the upcoming ammunition laws will be equally un-enforced when they realize how much it will cost to implement. I know many people that are leaving this state, including myself, that have had it up to our wallets in taxes and ridiculous legislation by ignorant, elected sub-flat rock dwelling, so-called representatives. We, the people of NY, have no one to blame but ourselves for our complacency and our heads in the sand approach to voting for these morons.
rant over.


#16

“…THE AMOUNT, CALIBRE, MANUFACTURER’S NAME AND SERIAL NUMBER, OR IF NONE,
53 ANY OTHER DISTINGUISHING NUMBER OR IDENTIFICATION MARK ON SUCH AMMUNI-
54 TION.”

Does that mean that there are plans afoot to require serial numbering of ammunition? Else, why would this passage be worded in this way? Surely the drafters knew that ammunition is not serial numbered. And what other distinguishing number or identification mark would that be? So, will there another “emergency” legislative requirement to follow, addressing ammunition serialization? I can feel it coming.


#17

I doubt if NY will have a chance to implement the new law. It will be challenged almost immediately and I’m sure they’ll find a judge who will put a stay on it.

And don’t expect any similar legislation out of our Congress, in spite of what the POTUS says to the contrary. Not even Sen, Reid will go that far.

As I said on another thread, this is mostly bluster and harumph. I have more faith in our country than that. If I’m wrong it won’t make any difference. It will all be over.

JMHO

Ray


#18

Sen. Harry Reid is the last one (or at least one of the last ones) I would trust to do the constitutionally right thing on this issue. But I hope you are correct.

By the way - I wonder if the Indian tribes will now start stocking ammunition in their cigarette outlet stores?


#19

It is obvious that the State of New York, and by extension the people of New York, since they
voted for the bums that passed this gun law, consider gun owners to be all potential criminals.

No person who owns a gun for any reason should ever visit the State of New York again, and certainly not spend any money in the state for any reason. Why subsidize tyranny?


#20

speaking as a person who has the very great misfortune to live in that state all i can say is i hope it doesn’t happen to you! it is frankly beyond belief…