New ARRIVAls from Wards auction Feb 2020

UPS delivered my winnings yesterday. I bid small, Only stuck with 3 lots 6 toTal boxes of 9x19 Ammunition. Got 50 round box Danish BAll from 1989, a 16 round box of post WW2 Czechoslovak and a Full 16 round box of Swiss dated 1943 (Sealed box, Also three 25 round boxes one of which was a bit of a mystery until I opened package and saw mixed Israeli Ball in box,. There was also a full box of Israeli tracer and a box less one round of Indonesian 9mm AD 79 headstamp… The latter was neat as I have two partial 25 round boxes of Indonesian 9mm headsatmped PSM 53 with no label! The odd Israeli mixed box has stamped on top “25 P 9 mm/F.F. 1950/Lot1” (Any ideas of who the box was for? Israel just doesn’t seem right? I would not have identified this box as Israeli 9 but wasnt sure what it was. So a surprise. The Swiss sealed box and Indonesian boxes were my favorites. most boxes have one round removed.
Re the Indonesian. Someone wrote in felt tip “Indonesia”. Label on top reads "illegible Butir/MIN?? KALIBER/ 9mm ??- 11j/ handwritten lower corner UTUH/79. end flap has symbol??? Sorry no camera right now) and reads KOMANDO PERINDUSTRUN/ TMI AMGKATAN DARAT. opposite end flap torn mostly appears to be numbers. the box itself is dark colored cardboard reminiscent of those with the PSM i’ve had for 40 plus years/ So bottom line I didn’t spend a lot but added some interesting items.

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John,

I don’t have the box you do, but I do have a Pindad box for cartridges headstamped PINDAD 88. It only came to me with one round in it. My box says the following, which I think will fill in some of the gaps for your label as well:

50 BUTIR (50 Rounds)
MUNISI KALIBER 9 mm (Ammunition caliber 9 mm0
MU - 1 TJ (This is Pindad’s catalog number for standard 9 mm Ball with 8 gram bullet)
LOT No. 32/88
PT. PINDAD PINSERO

(The english in parens is my translation)

Sorry it does not have all the same information on it as your box does. I don’t have much older literature from Pindad. Most of my file on it is stuff from about 2002 to 2007. In case you don’t have that information, I can tell you that the Initials PSM on your older rounds stands for, according to one document from Pindad, “Pabrik Senjata Mesiu, Weapon and Ammunition Factory,” which was under the management of the Indonesian Army. It was the original factory the Dutch founded in 1908, as the “Artillerie Constructie Winkel,” in Suabaya. It moved to Bandung in 1923. The factory was handed over by the Dutch to the Indonesian Government on April 29, 1950. Then the factory was officially named “Pabik Senjata dan Munisi.” Note that this name does not agree with the previous name I mentioned right before it. Two different documents are involved and I cannot explain the discrepancy in the names. The name changed again to “PT. Pindad Persero” on April 29, 1983. (Reference: Company Profile, Directorate of Military Product, copied for my files on September 6, 2002).

There were small changes to the name, a major one being to “PT. Baana Pakarya Industri Strategis (Persero),” but I have no date for that. According to the second document, simply with Pindad’s “dot com” address on it, in the year 2002 the name was again changed by the government and it was under the Kementerian BUMN. I do not have the meaning for the intials “BUMN,” nor any information on further name changes after 2002. except that on a document showing some of their pistol loads, dating from c.2007, the refer to themselves as simply “PT. PINDAD.”

Hope this is of some interest and help.

John Moss

P.S.: Pindad had two factory locations. The ammunition factory was at Turen Malang, East Java, and the Weapons division was located in Bandung.

Thanks for the info on Indonesia John. I knew the PSM meaning, but not all the rest. The older unlabeled box I have came from Mick McLaughlin who picked it up at a long since ended small show in The ST Louis Area (Illinois SIde BTW). I think Lew Got one full box and I got rest of the lot. Amy rate thanks for sharing. The Only question I still have is the Odd box with mixed Israeli Ammo 25 P9mm/F.F. 1950/Lot 1. Obviously repacked at some point as none of the ammo has 1950 date. But was this Israeli Box? A well made Box Id add!

John - Your box with the following label is Swedish. I would suggest the strong possibility that is is a “stuffer,” that is, filled up with loose cartridges by an individual for whatever purpose.

They must have made a huge quantity of this ammo in the early 1950s - not impossible that it was an ongoing contract for Israel although I don’t know that, but the timing would make sense - because my box is lot number 53403 dated from 1953. The headstamp for my box is " II 5 II II 3 II K II " and I am confident yours would be the same, except of a date of “50.”

9 mm Swedish FF Box Label

John Moss

John, An Upddate. Found the same box in my coll
ection though dated 1950 with Swedish K 1950 rounds. Guess this box was repacked by someone but will never know why!

Considering the length of time they were supplying this 9 mm ammunition in these boxes, I see no reason to believe the ammo is repacked. The lot numbers match the dates on the cartridges, it seems, and may actually be a date code. On my box, Lot 53403 could be a backwards date of March 4, 1953. The boxes are consistent, and the abbreviations could be from several languages. I would like to know what the “F.F.” before the 1953 date stands for. They look like a contract box, not one made for the Swedish military, but that is only a guess on my part. Perhaps one of our Scandinavian members would have more insight into this?

John Moss

Comyents of box were all Israeli mixed headstamps!

JohnG - I misread your comments. I thought you were referring to the box mentions in the same reply, from 1950 and loaded with K 50 cartridges. I certainly DO think the box for which you originated this thread IS a repack. As to who repacked it, I see no way to find that out.

Regarding this style of box (not word “style”), regardless of year, the box itself does not, in my opinion, represent a repacking of ammunition in Sweden. I believe these to be for a specific, ongoing contract.

Sorry I got mixed up on that one box in question. Again, I agree with you that particular box was “stuff” or repacked. I think if it was done on an official basis in Israel, they would have added repacking info to the box.

John Moss