New Forum Header

John S.–Nice addition to the Forum header. Now if we could just get a little color up there!!!

Like this ?

Do I dream ???
Is this really cyrillic writting ?

The forum header is a 9x18-mm Makarov cartridge diagram. It’s to tip-the-hat to one of our most prolific contributors–for both the forum and Journal–Mr. John Moss.

The header is also 25 pixels less in height. More posts, less header, taking up your screen space.

More tips-of-the-hat on the way…


Perhaps this is a good attention for John and I perfectly understand some people want to make him a pleasure.

But, I am still dreaming, or to be more accurate, I am still making a big nightmare !!

When, on an american forum, you find nothing better to put a Russian ctge and furthermore with a cyrillic writting as header, excuse me there is a big big problem.

Don’t complain next time about the fact people do no commemorate anymore the D- day in your country.
These people are perfectly right to forgive things which happened more than sixty years ago, because you forgive things which ended only fifteen years ago !!

Don’t talk anymore about the socialist republic of california please.
I think socialists have spread all over your country.

Don’t put Jane Fonda down anymore.
Demonstating and arguying against Viet nam war was nothing in regard of training the nord vietnamese pilots in Russia or supporting all the guerillas against your troops or your allies.

We had 45 years of cold war with Russia.
It costed billions and billions of dollars (and not only to the USA but also to all the western countries who were obliged to follow you),
Hundred of thousands (and perhaps millions) of people (including US citizen) dead because of the wars USA and USSR were playing worldwide.
The USSR government and its idealogy was as bad and even worse than the nazis
and you dare to put such an header !!

I have two suggestions:

  1. John is a also a very big collector of 7.92 ctges.
    I can find you a beautifull 7.92 drawing with a big svastika.
    Are you ok to put it also as header ?

  2. In the close future your country will have to deal with China, India and Arabs (not with the same way, but the result will be the same for your country). Why don’t you anticipate and put also headers in arab writting ?

Conclusion :
Put a Makarov ctge with cyrillic caracters (which is, if you haven’t thought about it before, at least an apology of a country who was againt your own country during the last century !) and a lot of people worldwide will think your country has fallen very low, so low it can’t fall lower.

I was of the impression that there were going to be a number of cartridges on the Forum header, not just the Makarov. I can think of much better choices for a single picture on the forum, although I am flattered by the reason quoted for putting it there, even though I think it is not especially justified. To honor all the great contributors to this Forum would take a couple of dozen of cartridges from their fields

However, I am a little bit taken back by J-P’s hysterical diatribe on the subject. I suppose we shouldn’t collect or ever picture a French cartridge, due to crimes committed in many of their colonies, especially in North Africa, or the huge amount of collaboration with the Nazi regime in France during WWII. Ever hear the word “Vichy?” But that would be equally ridiculous, ignoring France’s huge contributions to ammunition technology and even their great contributions to history, including American liberty during the American Revolution.

The 9 x 18mm cartridge is a combination of bits of metal and chemicals - of itself, it has no politics. The same is true for a 7.9 Mauser cartridge even if it has a headstamp with Nazi symbols on it. The cartridge in question happens to be a supurbly designed cartridge for its purpose - use in a medium-sized blowback operated pistol, superior in fact to even the semi-rimmed rounds of John Browning, one of my own personal heroes. The pistol ranks among one of the most reliable handguns ever made, almost perfect in design (although not always in execution) for what the criteria was in its development. For me, it will never replace the .45 as a defense mechnism, but then niether will any 9mm Para handgun.

It seems to me that we can study cartridges and even have great respect for the design of them without automatically being considered as honoring the Governments that spawned them.

As to the Socialist Republic of California, of course, having to live here, I agree with that assessment, but then Europe is rife with Socialism - Western Europe anyway. Does that mean that those of us who deplore the general Socialist doctrine must deplore all of our friends in those countries who have about as much control over the systems they live under as I do as a Californian - none? Must we never collect or look at a cartridge from those countries? If J-P has one Russian or 3rd Reich vintage shotshell in his collection, of course we know he is going to throw it away, as it is obviously politically tainted. Of course, no Italian ones either, if made in the Fascist era and no Japanese ones made during the Showa period. Can’t have any French ones that might have been made in Vichy France, or Hungarian, Bulgarian, Croatian, or Austrian ones made during the WWII era. Can’t have any American ones made during the period of slavery, a shameful chapter in American history. Certainly no British ones from the Boer War period - a not-so-glorious era for an otherwise great nation. Can’t have any Arabic shotgun shells due to Muslim extremism, nor certainly any Turkish ones due to the Armenian massacre.

He who is without sin may have the cartridges they manufactured collected, I guess. Well J-P, any suggestions on which field I should pick for the one or two cartridges ever made that is not from some politically tainted entity?

J-P. You need to get your head on straight. We are studying ammunition, not praising repressive regimes that developed a specific cartridge.

By the way, if anyone wants, I would be perfectly happy to see the masthead cartridge changed to a .30-06, still the best infantry rifle cartridge that was ever developed. How’s that for a controversial statement?

J-P, this is a forum for discussing ammunition. Your post should be removed, you have over reacted.

I’m with John on this. J-P does have a point, tho. Sadly, much of the world sees us, enviously, as a bunch of cowboys anyway. My eldest son is experiencing the socialism of (Not so much anymore)Great Britain. It is a really sad state of affairs over there. Western Europe is in the same mode.

WE can collect pretty much anything we want with few to no restrictions.
WE can show a picture of a former enemy’s ammunition without remorse. To those dimayed by our short memories, that’s how we roll. Don’t chastise us because we don’t hold centuries old grudges. We just take care of those that do.

We are still living in the greatest country ever concocted.
To our detractors: Let them eat cake. (Marie Antionette?)
There’s also the fish head option.

As for another header option, maybe a sectioned APFSDS round.


  1. Don’t you franckly think an header with an US ctge won’t be better than one with a Russian one ??

This will seem be the minimum for an US forum, won’t be ??
And more logical.

  1. I don’t have an hysteritical attitude, but the fact I see cyrillic caracters in the header is really embarassing me, you are right.
    (I say “embarassing”, but the right word would be “freaking me out”, as you have seen)

But if it doesn’t disturb you (as being an US citizen) why must I care as a foreigner?
It is useless to be more royalist than the King, we say.

  1. I never said you must not collect or show russian ctges (with cyrillic comments drawings). Or French or Italian ones !!

But there is a big difference between what you have in a topic and the header which is on every page of the forum.

  1. I still carring on thinking it is a little bite funny to forget recent things and not the old ones.
    But this is not my problem once again.


I guess the answer is in IAA’s title - International Ammution Association. And word international is key word.

Well said.

Yes its al in the name…
(International Ammunition Association)

but a nice (gyrojet) cartridge for the header !!!


This is out of control.
Cyrillic is an alphabet, not a movement nor a social idea. It’s a method of communicating.
If you have an issue with the header, I run the forum, take it up with me. Then move up the chain of command with IAA after that.
And there will most likely be header images with Arab, Chinese, Farsi, Hebrew and English in the future on the header. As I have the time I will be creating a bunch of different headers–that will rotate–that cover all sorts of cartridges from all over the world.
I highly encourage you all to focus on our hobby, not the semantics of a header image.

OK, Boys, let’s get back to CARTRIDGE COLLECTING without the political overtones.


Chris B.–Excuse me if I gave credit for the new design for the Masthead (a better term than header–Thanks John Moss) to the wrong person when I addressed the change to John S.

I do think some color in the Masthead would dress up the opening page of the Forum nicely.

Personally, I like it, and I like the idea of a revolving display. Keeps things fresh.

JP I really think you’re overreacting on this one. It no more glorifies the USSR than an early 7.92x57 with the old-style Germanic lettering would glorify the 3rd Reich. To me, it has “international” all over it.

Now, if it was a picture of a hammer & sickle, or a swastika, or the like - yeah, we’d have a problem. But it’s just a drawing, with no politics attached.

Can someone deciper the Cyrillic?

And for my money, a larger and color header would be great.


OK, where have I gone wrong??? What masthead??? I don’t see anything different than yesterday or the day before that, or the day before that, or …

Edit - OK, now it is there. What kind of hocus-pocus was that??


Yeah seriously, as long as the image is a rotating one, (maybe 3 or 4 per year?) then who cares what country the cartridges are from and which alphabet is depicted? I would guess that Mr. Bushin among other Russian cartridge collectors would appreciate having at least one Russian example in the header of the next few year’s-worth of rotating header images, especially seeing as how the Russians produced a bewildering amount of cartridges over the years which many people collect. Keeping the header images strictly American/western oriented would be somewhat boring since most of the forum members are Americans, and are familiar with these cartridges already, doing some international cartridges would be a little more interesting at times, and in sync with the IAA namesake.