New Headstamp? CWL 380 Auto


#1

I did not see it in the database.

Chines production
boxes marked “Griffon”

We just got a couple of pallets in and they are new to me.

If it is new I will scan and post.


#2

The Griffon brand was sold in South Africa, by the Colonial Weapons Limited, hence the “CWL” headstamp. It is also found on 9 mm Parabellum. The rounds showed up as singles in the USA at least as early as 2002, which is the earliest date I have on correspondence concerning this brand.


#3

How do we know they are made in China?


#4

EOD - my 9 mm is in quite a different box than is this .380. If this box is marked “Griffon” on the back, we know it is for the South African company. I have other Chinese boxes for 9 mm Para of the same pattern as my “Griffon” box but with that word, and with different headstamp.
All of those boxes are marked “China.” Of course, we can only see a couple of sides of this box, so perhaps it is marked “China” as well.

CANAM - What country are you in? If you are in the USA, I would like to buy a full box of this - you mention getting several pallets in. Do you work in a gun shop or is this for some club? If you shoot this yourself, even if you are not in the USA, I would gladly purchase and empty box from you.

I cannot read the headstamp on my screen. My .380 round has the caliber at the top and the “CWL” at the bottom of the head. Is this one the same, or reversed?


#5

I obtained my 9x19mm with the CWL headstamp in 1999 along with the two boxes illustrated below. I believe that the Yellow box did not actually contain CWL headstamps, but when I got it I was told that it did. The only CWL headstamped round I have is loaded with a 115gr bullet. I don’t know of a 125gr load, but it is possible. The yellow box also shows up with a white overlabel stating that the cartridges were remanufactured (ie reloaded) by NGA. The back of the box says the ammunition was destributed by “CONTINENTAL WEAPONS (Pty) Ltd”.

Note that the blue box is clearly Chinese but does say Griffon on the back as John indicated.

Below is a Chinese box which contained typical Chinese 9x19mm ammunition headstamped L 9x19 Y 91. The format is identical to the blue CWL box above. The back of this box says 'MADE IN CHINA".

Cheers,
Lew


#6

We know it is from China because we bought it from Norinco

We are located in Canada


#7

Lew & CanAm, thanks!
So how do we fit Lew’s latest info about “Continental Weapons” vs. “Colonial Weapons Limited”?
Little info in the web, not even a (old/expired) website of neither.


#8

Does anyone know of other instances of the Chinese doing OEM branding of civi ammo?

This is a first for me.


#9

I don’t know how one resolves differences in information. I think I recall Lew’s info was from an actual document. My info came out of one of the South African bulletins or personal correspondence from South Africa, I forget which. Its like the the difference between the two explanations for the NPA headstamp. A South African Study of 9 mm said it stood for National Procurement Agency, but the box labels were translated by one of our finest scholars on Chinese ammunition as National Police Agency. In that case, I trust the translation more, even though I submitted the proposal that it stood for Procurement. That was before I had the label translated.!


#10

John & all, do we have a box or an original document saying “Colonial Weapons Limited”. Any more thoughts, opinions or insight?


#11

Alex - Re-reading this thread, yes, we do have documentation for it being Continental Weapons Ltd. - Lew Curtis’ box label which he shows on this thread.

I looked up my original source for the “Colonial” identification I made - it was in an email from August 14, 2002, and said "I was told it was Colonial Weapons Limited of RSA, made in China!"
The email was from - drum roll, bugles sounding, children clapping their hands in joy - Lew Curtis.

No offense Lew - just another opportunity for the Gran Pissant. I know you would be disappointed if I didn’t take the shot. :-)

All teasing aside, I would accept the box label, myself, as documentation, even though that box was evidently received by him empty, and he himself doubts, due to the bullet weight, that the box contained the CWL headstamp. The key corroboration as far as I am concerned is that the box also has the “Griffon” marking on it. It is not impossible that a factory in China, if that is where the box was made, could make an error, but since it has the company’s total name, Continental Weapons (PTY) Ltd., and address, I find that highly unlikely.


#12

John, here is the “Griffon” trademark registration applied by CWL for their pistols:


#13

[quote=“JohnMoss”]Alex - Re-reading this thread, yes, we do have documentation for it being Continental Weapons Ltd. - Lew Curtis’ box label which he shows on this thread.
[/quote]

John, this is why I have asked for “Colonial Weapons Limited”.