New ID please


I have no idea what this is. It appears to be in a .308 cal but not sure and I don’t have my calipers with me. Took them back to the shop. Please ID for me. I have no question someone can ID it. I assume it is a LC 1967 cartridge.


A blank. Makes a very loud bang. Didn’t want to go all technical over a blank.

For a more detailed summary, Mr. Moss may chime in here and clear things up.


Thanks, I looked at several blanks and they all had the rat shot crimp on top, none with the projected nose. So it confused me. Sort of easy to do these days. LOL



Check out the search function (upper right) for “M82 Blank”. Whole bunch of stuff on it including this one on the new version with petal crimp.



Spent many childhood hours punching out the wad and shaking out the powder. For the bigger potential bang in it. Shot a few, as well. And now that you mention it, most all of the newer ones do have the star crimp. Sad. Makes it harder to get to the powder :-)


Lifelongnra–Please do not think I am being critical of you. I am just trying to help you as a new collector to learn the accepted terminology for things in the cartridge collecting world.

You use the term “Rat Shot Crimp”. I know you are referring to the .22 L.R. Shot cartridges commonly called Rat Shot Cartridges. While commonly used, this name for these rounds will NEVER be found in a company catalog. They are ALWAYS called either .22 Long Shot (which were made several years before the Long Rifle cartridge was invented) or .22 Long Rife Shot.

As for the proper name for that style crimp, it is NEVER called a Rat Shot Crimp. You will see in two answers above that 2 different names are used, Petal Crimp and Star Crimp. There is a third name, Rose Crimp. All three of these are synonymous terms and acceptably. Personally I normally use the term Rose Crimp, but whichever of the three you decide to use, you will be understood as to what you mean. I do suggest that whatever one you prefer that you try to be consistent in your use.

That blank you show is called the M82 Extended Neck Blank. Any cartridge, mostly blanks, that have the cartridge case extended beyond the normal casemouth are referred to as Extended Neck style. Many (most actually) have a Rose Crimp on the end rather than a Rolled Case Mouth over a Wad, as your M82 has. There is one other commonly used term for a blank case mouth style that you will see. It is called a Model 1909 or just 1909 or 09 type. This refers to the style of the .30-06 Blank, Model 1909 where the normal case neck length has a rolled casemouth over wad and a heavy groove midway down on the neck to keep the wad in place. Although this is a specific load type of the .30-06, that style blank closure has been used throughout the world on many calibers and is usually, at least in cartridge collecting, called a 09 type blank. There are also Paper Bullet Blanks, Wood Bullet Blanks, All Plastic Blanks and a few others.

Hope this helps.


I believe the M82 is still the standard for the 7.62mm Blank Cartridge. It remains the standard so as not to be confused with the M64 Rifle Grenade Cartridge which uses the “rose-petal (rosette crimp)” closure.



No Problem Ron, Thank you very much!
I’m glad you pointed that out.

I did read that in the link that was posted.
I just used that term because that is where I always saw that style of crimp used in a rifle cartridge.
I do reload shot shells and realize the difference. Silly me!


Question on the M82 Blank:

What’s the earliest dated (+) marked M82 folks out there have?

I’ll start the bidding with an “LC (+) 61”.




You might be a winner because I believe the early (+) blanks were the XM192 which was the 51mm case with a 1909 type closure. Mine is FA (+) 59. I have an XM 82 Blank but it is headstamped only FA.



Here is a 7.62x51mm extended neck blank with the headstamp FA (+) 60.
For more discussion and pictures of these blanks see the archives viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5830&p=40593&hilit=xm82#p40593


This is probably more than anyone wants to know but here goes anyway!!

7.62x51mm Extended Neck Blanks in my collection

With NATO Symbol, mouth roll crimped over red disk.

FA 60
LC 61
LC 62, WCC 62, WRA 62
LC 63, WCC 63, WRA 63
LC 64

Without NATO Symbol, mouth roll crimped over red disk.

LC 65
LC 6
LC 66
LC 67
LC 68
LC 69
LC 76
LC 77
LC 79
LC 88

Without NATO Symbol, 5-petal rose-crimped mouth w/black sealant

LC 89
LC 91

That’s all I gathered before I switched to 7.9x57mm stuff.

Does anyone know why they dropped the NATO symbol after 1964



I’ve often wondered if the M82 was ever adopted as a NATO standard. It seems that all of the new cartridges from LC do not have the (+). Do the current foreign extended neck blanks have the (+). The only ones I have are ca. 1960 and they do.



That’s an interesting point you’ve raised there, I’ve just checked my British 7.62mm collection and although most of the service loads (ball, tracer, dummy) do have the Nato mark none of the blanks have it. I hadn’t noticed that before.
The same pattern exists with Radway Green 5.56mm as well. Tony?


Ray & Jim

I looked at my listing of non-U.S. 7.62x51 blanks of all types and none of them have a NATO mark, but then I don’t have very many either, maybe a dozen or so.


Just looked true the few 7,62x51 mm I have in my cigar box.
Found a few non US with a NATO symbol.

The first one is made of CWS.

As an Ex. I can show a 56 FA



Hey Dutch

Going a little astray here, but can you weigh that FA (+) 56 dummy round?

I’m trying to find out if the early rounds had the regular or the light bullet. It seems maybe both. Heavy bullet version will weigh about 325 grains.




320.5 grains



Thanks Dutch. That’s the heavy bullet, for sure. I’m still not sure what it all means.