New Israeli 9mm FYI


#1

Just saw lots of new 1994 Israeli 9mm surplus at a PA show this week, all Hebrew label stamped on 50 round brown card boxes. Also saw the .50 cal. cans they came in. For all you non-Hebrew speakers/readers, the second line of the label says “FOR SUBMACHINE GUNS”. Now whether that means they are loaded on the warm side, or the primers are less sensitive, I couldn’t tell you. And at $22 a box I didn’t feel like getting any to examine.


#2

Jonny - the text you sent in sounds like there should be pictures with it. Where are they?

Generally speaking, if a IMI military/police cartridge is “for pistols” it has a silver tip (and maybe later some different color - I have a list of the colors and what they mean, but not at hand at the moment) to indicated lower velocity (and pressure). Ordinary rounds with the reddish primer seal are submachine tun rounds, or at least that is my understanding. Whether or not the normal Israeli military issue for the UZI is safe in a good pistol, I don’t know. Before I knew this I fired some surplus Israeli 9 mm ammo in a Browning HP without any problem of any sort, but whether that was a good idea, I just don’t know now.


#3

No pics, I didn’t get a box.
Yes, you’re right about the silver tips, and we used to shoot lots of the standard “SMG/Uzi” ammo in pistols. The only pistols I recall having any problems were captured Helwans.


#4

Helwans give trouble with everything. Winchester standard commercial ball ammunition (not USA or any form of military), which is only a bit more powerful than a 9 mm Glisenti Load, cracked the slide of a Helwan pistol we sold (we sold the ammo along with it). Money back to the customer ended our problem.
We never sold another of them as the previous two we had sold gave problems, although much more minor than a cracked slide. These pistols are really junk and I would never pull the trigger on a loaded one, myself. Ours were commercial guns identical to a 951 Beretta. I had in my auto pistol collection an Egyptian military one with some differences in the gun - grips, and some more important ones, but I forget not, 40 years later, what they were. While having a very dull, almost sand-blasted looking finish, it seemed to be much better made than the commercial ones, but I never fired it anyway.
They were pretty rare then, and I assume now as well, since I don’t recall ever seeing another at a gun show or in a gun shop.


#5

The box of ammo I’ve seen during an internet search shows the 50 round box as described by Johnnyc. Headstamp on the rounds shown is: 9MM TZZ 98.

There is no bullet tip color, primers are flat and nickeled and have a dark blue primer seal.


#6

Got a link?


#7

Jon - Please, a link. I can’t find it. I would probably buy a box if sold singly just to get the box label. Fifty-round boxes are not all that common for Israeli ammunition. Nor is a nickel seal with blue PA coupled with that headstamp, although I have not checked to see if I have one or not. I would love to see a picture of the box.

Just in case, is the fellow who had them at a show known to you (a local guy for you)? If so, I would ask you to get me a box with full reimbursement for the ammo and shipping, of course.


#8

Not a problem, I will get a couple at the next show they appear (he said hopefully!). If I had thought they would be so interesting I would have grabbed some.


#9

Found this pic, but I couldn’t figure out who it was that had the ammo itself.