New less-lethal ammo from Russia / Slovakia


#1

Hello

here’s the new less-lethal round for civilian self-defense, designed in Slovakia for Russian market. It is entering production in Russia, and will be available for purchase in couple of months

The case is based on the stretched 9x19 case, as the base platform guns for this round are chambered for 9x19
the load is 12mm rubber ball, squeezed into the case and crimped.

I will post ballistics (projectile mass and V0) as soon as i will get this info

the 10x28T


#2

A stretched 9x19 or a shortened 5.45x39 ?


#3

Looks like it is basically the same thing as the 10x22T seen here: http://legguns.ru/1022t.php

I wonder if this is a “magnum” version of the 10x22T, or a harder projectile? These have been around in Eastern Europe and Russian, but apparently collectors are having a hard time getting a hold of them. I have never seen one in the U.S.


#4

Not exactly
It has ball of larger diameter, thus it can be fired with more energy, as by law, the limitations for civilian-legal less lethal ammo is imposed by maximum energy per 1 sq.mm of bullet diameter.

So, it’s sort of “magnum” load in relation to all 10x22 loads, though the 10x28T pistol most probably will not work reliable with much shorter and somewhat weaker 10x22T ammo

the 10x28T vs. 10x22T


#5

Thanks Max, it’s good to see a close-up photo of the cartridges & projectiles.


#6

I agree that these cartridges loaded are not easy for collectors in some countries, including the US, to get. They are not used in the USA and therefore are not imported, for the most part. You will see from the picture of those rounds in my collection that many have a hole in the case. They are all factory inert (dummy) cartridges obtained for me at various European military and trade shows. Very few of them have been found in the US by me.

In the Picture: Top Row: First Group on left: All Russian, various loadings (note colors of plastic inserts at case mouths), designated 9mm AC. Mostly gas and blank. All inert. 2nd Group from left. 9mm PA, various countries, including Russia. Many are inert. Last cartridge of the row is an unfinished case retained for its headstamp. Again, various loadings of tear gas (all inert) and blanks.

Bottom Row: 10 x 32T. First one on left is a live round, rubber-ball loading. The other two are factory dummies, differing only in the position of the hole in the side of the case. All made by Barnaul and so headstamped. Second group from the left: 9 mm Rubber cartridges, based on the 9mm PA round, but with rubber ball loading. Despite the loading, a couple of these are still headstamped as “Knall” or “noise blanks.” The last one is and empty case with the ball removed. The first at the left, which is possibly a protype of the “rubber” cartridge, appears to have a dark grey plastic ball, instead of black rubber.

I have not been overly specific about these only because this type of ammunition is very peripheral to my collection. Yes, they shoot in self-loading pistols, but are not really conventional semi-automatic pistols. I have never, as of yet, fully categorized them or even identified all the loadings. One day I hope I will get to it.

I did not include the 8mm Platzpatrone or 8 mm Gaspatrone, the same case type with only different loadings, because they have been widely sold in the USA and are well known to cartridge collectors throughout the world. While I have a lot of them, I have a poor collection because most are gas cartridges, and unlike the newer types shown in the picture, are not easy to find inerted. Live gas cartridges that actually have gas-producing agents in them are illegal in California. I do not collect them at all unless they are clearly fired cases, or factory-inerted cartridges that probably never contain the gas-producing elements at all, since they were made only for advertising and informational purposes. No real loss to me, as I have never generated a big interest in these types, not because they are NOT interesting, which would be absurd to say, but only because they are somewhat out of my field. I call them a wobbler - much like industrial cartridges loaded in auto pistol case types. I have a few of those, but do not actively seek them out.

Photo and comments by John Moss,
items pictured from the collection of John Moss


#7

I forgot to mention in my posting that there are also two forms of “Rubber Ball” loads in 9 z 18 mm Makarov, although I have only one of them at the moment. It, too, is an inert round from a Trade Show in Europe. I did not picture it because it was of conventional caliber, but probably should have, since it is fairly interesting - far more than just a rubber ball shoved in a case, visually anyway.

It would not surprise me if there aren’t loads in 9mm Para cases as well, the “rubber ball” type I mean, although I have not seen them. The Makarov loads are Russian, not Sloval like many of these.

John Moss


#8

John - there is one rubber ball load in 9mm para that I know of. Available through Firequest.com and made by ALS as far as I know: http://www.firequest.com/LA357.html There’s the Libra load also, but that is 9x22.

Interestingly - the Chinese are using a “new” revolver design (in 9x20R - based on .38S&W) meant for previously unarmed police units such as traffic or local foot patrol, and one of the primary loads used with it is a rubber projo: http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg199-e.htm That’s another unobtainable Chinese collectible cartridge I would like to have.


#9

DK - Unfortunately, the show it restricted for all of California. I don’t know of any law against “rubber-ball ammunition” although God knows what California may have passed that went unnoticed since I received my last copy of the State Firearms code. From other items, it does not appear that this firm is applying the law that will be in effect next year where NO ammo of any kind, caliber, etc. can be sent to a private party in California.

To bad. I probably would have ordered a package each of the auto pistol rounds.

I have never been able to get a ruling on flares. Technically, they are a distress-signaling device. If they come under the California tracer law, than every boat that has the USCG required flare guns is in violation of California law - a felony to boot. When I had a license for tracer, incendiary, etc, I use to list my flares to be safe, always commenting that I didn’t know if they were “destructive devices” (what a name! Typical of California legal hyperbole) or not, and never once got a clarification from the state. Well, it would have taken them about 30 seconds to call me and tell me, and we all know that government doesn’t want to waste a dime of our tax money! :-(

Next year, it is pretty uch over for the California cartridge collector anyway.

John Moss