New Luger Round

Anybody thing this might fit into a artillery Luger???

1 Like

One of the many variations of the 9mm Kaltmann experimental

Might have a magnetic flechette in the tip.

Hans-Joachim Kaltmann was an engineer working for Rheinmetall in the post WW2 period. The polygonal rifling used in MG3 barrels is, among other things, attributed to him. No connection to the so-called artillery Luger (lange Pistole 08) of 1913.

I knew Herr Kaltmann pretty well, a long time ago. He told me that these were rounds for an experimental assault weapon, but some bullet tests were done in 9x19mm cases without the plastic extender. I have such a 9x19 round with this identical bullet.

He had an amazing background.


Here one of his related patents:

Does anyone know the proper designation of this cartridge or series of cartridges? It is certainly not a 9 mm Luger round in anything other than the headstamp on the brass portion of the cartridge.

John Moss

John, to what I see these are 9/4mm types (4mm is the projectile inside the 9mm sabot).
Here an image of a board with Kaltmann designs.
I wonder where this one is today.

Image source: internet

Alex the board with the Kaltmann designs is in my collection




can you tell us more about Mr. Kaltmann and his background?
Thanks in advance



Thank you all for your info on that round and yes I needed
the education

Harrie, well done!
Really a great assembly of these rounds which I have not seen anywhere else!

Is it possible that the wooden case is causing the brass cases to oxidize?

Hi gyrojet, Is possble to get some specimen of Kaltman´s catridges for the next ECRA International meeting? (I have only seen them in one of the meeting some years ago)
Please if so, email to

I cannot help noticing that almost all of those cartridges in that display case have
holes in them were these issued as such or is this State ordered vandalism
to satisfy someones pipe dream.

Sherryl, despite you being correct about fascists governing us it appears it is not them this time (to my own surprise).
Unless I am totally blind (may be though): what you may have interpreted as holes is the links these cartridges are held together with.

yes no holes but links correct Alex

The yellow thing in the fisrt and last picture is a plastic strip of “Pil” caseless cartridges for SPIT nail drivers. Kaltmann used them to improvise his caseless variant.

To all of you thank you for the clarification about
those holes.

Fede your right …

You know I am a bit shocked how a picture sometimes can fool a person
after I saw the pic gyrojet posted with those links it left me speechless.
Thanks gyrojet