New R-P 9mm Headstamp With a Dot -- Jagemann


#1

Came upon some 9mm Luger cases with a new R-P headstamp. After 14 hours of searching, I found a total of 12. In attachment, left is case first observed in last half of 2010, middle is the R-P case produced on a Formax machine – which weighs the same as the drawn case to its left, right is the new R-P headstamp with dot.


Immediately noticed that 8 of the new headstamped cases had ‘fingernail’ drag marks around the primer pocket which you regularly see on Winchester cases but rarely see on R-P cases, an indication they were made by someone other than Remington.
R-P%20dot%20fingernail
I believe they were produced by Jagemann (YAY-geh-mahn) for Remington. They have the characteristic Jagemann R, 9, m, and G. Also, I can find no characteristic that would indicate manufacture by anyone else.
R-P%20dot%20R-P R-P%20dot%209mm R-P%20dot%20LUGER
Why Remington would be buying 9mm cases from Jagemann is beyond my understanding, but I’m convinced they’re Jagemann.


#2

Great info!!!

A couple of years ago when the R-P headstamps shown in the middle row with the “open R” showed up an LE instructor asked them about the source of the cases and was told Remington made all their own cases. Since the “open R” had shown up on other headstamps, either they were made by Remington, which Remington also denied or Remington was not truthful on the source of the cases.

You have pretty well confirmed to me that Remington is buying at least some cases from other makers. It seems pretty unlikely that Jagemann is buying cases from Remington!

Thanks for the ID on the cases with the 9mm . LUGER!

I wish someone could identify the manufacturer of the cases down the middle with the “open R”!!!

Cheers,
Lew


#3

Here is a box I picked up yesterday at the local gun show with this same dot & funny, almost script “R” as those in the mifddle.
So these are made on a Formax machine & if I’m reading this correctly & the ones with a dot a 6 are by Jagemann?

r-p%20luger%20hs


#4

Yes, the headstamp with dot at 1:30, and not-closed-loops on R, P, and 9 were made on a Formax machine. Interestingly, and unlike the Speer/Federal cases made on their Formax machines – which are interchangeable but not the same weight as their drawn cases, the R-P 9mm cases are the same weight as R-P’s drawn cases. I also have a single example of that R-P headstamp with dot at 1:30 but WITH closed-loop R, P, and 9. That single case appears to be drawn, not extruded (Formax). I just got back from the Penn Cartridge Collectors show and will post photos when I can. The ones with the dot at 6:00 are the Jagemann.


#5

Comparison photos of the two versions of the middle headstamp, which I call Type 18, closed loops (drawn)/open loops (Formax).
R-P
Type18aR-P
Type18bR-P
9mm
Type18a9mm
Type18b9mm
LUGER
Type18aLUGER
Type18bLUGER


#6

Remington cases in brown box with dot showed up on Modway and other places recently.


#7

Here are three shots of a single example of the R in the brown box. I think this round has a flaw in the P so disregard that factor.
DSC_0003 DSC_0001 DSC_0002


#8

I finally found my Topic on this headstamp, now known to be on Remington Formax cases, started Dec 2012, see New R-P 9mm HS. Obviously been around a while.