New to forum... please help to ID an Artillery headstamp


#1

Hi everyone, I am new this is my first post. I collect ww2 militaria and have a few items I can share here. This is from WW1 and what I do know about it is that it is a small trench art storage container made from casings. The main part is a British casing, the one I have posted here is the lid of which I have not been able to learn where it was from. I know the coin is a silver “Occupation coin” from Egypt, I am hoping to learn from the gentlemen here on the forum what it says. just learning the posting of the photos, my apologies in advance.
Thank you!

Another couple of shots i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt24 … 1169_1.jpg
i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt24 … 1166_1.jpg


#2

Welcome here Hutch,
Your case head is from a Bulgarian 75mm Schneider field gun. The case was also made by Schneider (France).


#3

Cool find. What is an Egyptian coin doing in the middle of it? Also, on top it says “Polish C.C. gun”. Why? Don’t know what “C.C.” means.


#4

Vlad, it says “Polsko” in Bulgarian what in slavic language is a derivate of the Russian “Polevaya” meaning “field” - here in conjunction to “field gun”.
No Poland here.


#5

Well thank you for your input. As for the assumption on the noun “Polish” I have a Serbian neighbor who I showed to his wife and he, she thought that the word was “Polish” as well. It being “trench art” I assume it might be from a battle where the two types of weapons were used. As for the Egyptian coin it might also commemorate something. I know the Brits made a retreat to Egypt after Gallipoli, it is a work in progress… my research on this that is. It is what I do with these things. Named medals, paperwork and such, I try to find the truth behind what I have.


#6

Hutch, Serbian language is related to Slavic languages of course but non ordnance experts tend to not know the own terminology of the subject (that is the same in any language).
In Serbian “field gun” is “пољски топ” (Polski Top), what a non ordnace experienced person would transpate then as “Polish gun” - being wrong of course.


#7

horridouhutch,

Welcome to the forum!

Just a quick note about EOD’s identification for your very nice trench art piece. There are a number of forum participants with a very impressive knowledge of the subject matter at hand (that excludes me) with EOD defiantly being one of them and EOD is probably one of the few on the forum that can ID this cartridge case with pretty good certainty. So if it were me I would stick with his ID until definitive information is presented to prove it otherwise.

Look forward to seeing other items you might want to post here on the forum!

Brian


#8

Would you be able to post a photo of the British headstamp?


#9

EOD- I hope that I did not imply that I did not accept your explanation… just wanted to say that someone else made the same mistake in calling it “Polish”. I am very grateful to finally have an explanation of the headstamp… thanks! I have had the piece for almost 10 years with it only now becoming clear!

Falcon- Being new to the forum I may have made a mistake in posting my photos. They appear as links at the bottom of the post, one photo an overall shot of it and the other one of the British headstamp you were requesting. Please check them out.

I am hoping that the item is a representation of a battle or campaign, that will take a little more research. In time my friends! Thank you all for your warm welcome and help on this. I will post some of my meager casings and ammo as I have time, it has been interesting browsing through the threads here on this forum.


#10

horridohutch,

The other artillery cartridge case headstamp you show is German WW1:

GFSP = Geschoss Fabrik Spandau (Rough translation: Bullet Factory Spandau)
St = Strengthened case (Slightly thicker case side walls and case head)
SEPT 1915 = September and 1915 (the month and year of manufacture)
Sp197 = inspection mark, one source indicates this mark is typically found on casings produced at Spandau
201 = may be a production lot number

Is this an intact/complete case or is it part of the trench art piece and possibly cut/reduced in length when the piece was made? Can you measure the rim diameter, mouth diameter and total case length and post same? Just curious!

Again your Bulgarian case trench art is NICE and it shows that research and asking questions can produce some very interesting results!

Brian


#11

Heck… all these years I thought it was a British one! I did some Googling on the markings and that was what I came up with, glad I asked some people that really know whats going on!


#12

GFSP ( also GwF SP) is Gewehr Fabrik Spandau, its Official German Name, roughly meaning Arms Factory Spandau ( Gewehr is a specific German Word which is generally interpreted as “Rifle” but really means “Arm” ( C/f “Sietengewehr” ==Side Arm (aka Bayonet). The Germans also use the term (from French) “Bajonett”

The Complex at Spandau ( an Outer Berlin Suburb) was the Lead Armoury/Arsenal of the original Prussian State, and became the “Head” Factory of the Imperial German Reich. BTW, “Geshoss” means ONLY the projectile…be it rifle bullet or artillery shell…the Casing/Cartridge is “Hulse” ( pl.Hulsen).

“St” is not “strengthened” but “Standard” --in German, meaning normal, approved design. ( as used in “Standard-Modell” … of the Mauser short rifle,)
“Strengthened” would be “Verbessert” ( ie Improved, etc.). “St” on WW II casings meant “Stahl” ( as in steel cartridge case)

Again, as with Bulgarian Shell Markings noted before, Mis-interpretation of “Ordnance” Terms can cause Havoc in Translations.

Doc AV


#13

For those who asked I have used a flat machinists ruler to measure the dimensions of the casings, they may be a bit off but at least fairly close.

The Schnieder casing since I know is a 75mm I tried first to check my accuracy and the outside dimension was 3 3/32" which converted to 76.994mm. The inside dimension was 2 53/64, converting to 71.8mm. The length of the casing is moot being that it is cut down and is the lid of the trench art piece.

The German casing measured outside at 3 5/32" converting to 80.1mm, and the inside was 3 6/64" converting to 78.5mm with the length albeit what is left, measuring at 3 3/32" or 78mm total…

Now I will try to figure out where this could have came from, if that would be possible. Thanks to all of you that helped in where these casings came from, much appreciated!


#14

The Most common German Shell casing that would fit those dimensions would be the 7,7cm (77mm) Krupp gun, the standard field gun of the German Army in WW I Various Models used, but the Common designation is M1897 7,7cm. FeldKanone. Being a roughly 3"/76,/75mm type of fieldgun, it matched its common adversaries in WW I (British, Russian and French/US ).

Doc AV


#15

DocAV, while I cannot say anything about the abbreviations used, Spandau had a Geschossfabrik (artillery projectiles) as well as a Gewehrfabrik (rifle factory, later machine guns, too).

Edit: Geschossfabrik became independent from Geschützgießerei (gun foundry) on April 1st, 1913.