New to forum - questions on vintage ammo


#1

Hello!
I’m an avid shooter, but not a collector (quite yet). I was re-doing some plumbing in the basement of my house and found this magazine shoved deep into the floor boards. We bought the house several years ago from the original owner who built it in 1958. He served as a Navy Seabee in Europe during WW2. I’m assuming he brought back some souvenirs, but have no idea what this was from, and if their is any value to it. There are 6 live rounds - 5 have the marking “CA B41” and the other is marked “SMI 932.”

Would very much appreciate any help on identifying these and worth. I’m continuing my home search for the gun that these belong to!

Thanks,
Glenn S.






#2

Glenn - welcome to the forum. Very nice photographs, by the way!

Your item is a full charger of 6.5 mm Italian Carcano ammunition for the M91 Carcano rifle and its later variants (as well as at least one Machine gun). “SMI” stands for “Società Metallugica Italiana,” who made ammunition and was a company that survived the War. The other rounds with “B” are from the Pirotecnico di Bologna. The “CA” are the inspectors initials, in form with last name first as often done in Italy, and represent Alfredo Cavallo, the Chief Government Inspector at Bologna at the time. The Bologna ammunition concern also survived the war for a time.

One minor criticism. This item is not a “magazine.” Generally speaking, a magazine is a detachable box for ammunition that has its own, independent follower and spring. This is a “charger” or a “Clip” made for rapid reloading of a firearms mechanism where the follower and the follower spring are part of the weapon. Again, that is a general explanation of the terminology. I am sure if we thought about it enough, we could find exceptions in the way they are used.

Again, thanks for your posting and for supplying such good photos to make the ID job quite easy. We hope to hear more from you, now that you have a “taste” of ammunition collecting. By the way, the collecting of chargers is very big in this hobby as well.


#3

Welcome to the forum!

As John said, good job on the photos. As he also said, these are clips for the Carcano rifles.
The Carcano rifles have an internal magazine and follower. When the clip is inserted into the magazine, from the top, the follower «arm» will push up on the bottom round, putting force on it. The clip stays in the magazine as long as there are cartridges in it, when the last round is loaded, it will drop through a hole in the bottom of the magazine.

Clips feed magazines, magazines feed the firearm. Simple rule of thumb :-)


#4

John, thanks much for the information and education. I belong to several other forums - not associated with firearms and ammunition - that provide a wealth of information for my other interests. When I came across the IAA through a Wikipedia search, I knew this would be the best place to get my answers. Thanks again.

I noticed on your bio that you are US Army retired. I’m proud to say that my 18 year old son, who graduated from High School four weeks ago, has enlisted and will be heading to Fort Benning in September. His goal is to be a Ranger, and is fully aware of what that involves. Regardless, we’re proud of him, pray for his safety, and want to thank all vets for their service!


#5

The 932, by the way, refers to date of production. In the Italian methodology, that’s 1932. They just dropped the 1.


#6

Glenn,
I’d just like to echo comments already made by others. You have presented your question clearly and with superb photographs. Sometimes posts can be hard work to read through but the way you presented yours made it a pleasure to read!


#7

Very much appreciate all your comments.
I feel I’m amongst professionals.


#8

Glenn - I will keep your son’s well-being in my thoughts. Just to keep the record straight, I am not retired from the U.S. Army. I served a total of 9 years and have two Honorable Discharges. The majority of that was in the Active Reserve. My major tour in the regular Army was at Ladd AFB, Alaska, where I was a Personnel Specialist in the Command Hq. Not quite so exciting as the Army Rangers. I left the Active Reserve as a Staff Sergeant, Light Weapons Infantryman Instructore. When I first joined the military, it was the Army Reserve also, and I actually jointed into, and 9 years later left from, the same Division, although when I jointed in was a regular Infantry Division and when I left it was a Training division. We actually gave two weeks of Basic Training to regular Army recruits, and it was not repeated. It was two of their eight weeks training. I had two or so years concurrent service as a Dept. of Army Civilian working for the Army Reserve full time. I was fortunate through my age and when I jointed the Army (1956) that I never heard a shot fired in anger. I was purely a Colt War Soldier.

I actually retired from 36 years working for, most of which as Manager, of a large Gun Shop in San Francisco. I went there when I quit my Army Civilian job in disgust of the “sit around and do nothing” attitude of my fellow Civil Service Workers. I was fortunate to be able to work most of my adult life in my hobby. Not much money, but a lot of job satisfaction. :-)

Just wanted to set the record straight. I am proud of my military service, but I don’t pretend to be something I am not.

I hope we will hear from you agaon on our Forum. Your first question was, as already noted, a first rate job of give us the information we needed to help you. That is not always the case.


#9

John - I sincerely appreciate your thoughts about my son’s well being and again thank you for your service in the military. My son Matt had a number of options he could have chose after high school - all of which would have benefited his career. He decided on the military because he wanted to serve his country first. I applaud all service men and women - past and present - who dedicate time from their lives to serve. He will be missed during his time away.

I want to share with you (because I’m a proud parent) an event that happened this July 4th at Progressive Field in Cleveland. The 2014 High School graduates from Northeast Ohio who enlisted in the military were invited to the Indians game to be recognized and “ceremoniously” sworn in in front of 40,000 fans. My son is the tall red head in the center frame.

God Bless!

youtube.com/watch?v=fiD7XZt3umA


#10

Wow, what a show!! My daughter was sworn in an office (Navy). This Carcano ammo and the gun itself are very famous for their involvement in the JFK affair. I just got local newspapers covering the assassination day at the last gun show. By the way, which ammo did Lee Harvey Oswald use, was it military or sporting?


#11

Vlad - the ammo used by Lee Harvey Oswald to assasinate President Kennedy was a Western (WCC) military contract with a scattered past that I do not remember now. It made the rounds from Italy and Greece (not necessarily in that order) to the MILSURP market in the USA. I don’t know where he bought the ammunition, but the carbine came from Klein’s Sporting Goods, in Chicago.

Glenn - What a handsome young man! The whole group are fine looking youngsters, and probably as usual with those joining the Army in the last 15 or 20 years, are lliterally the “best of the best.” I am sure he will make you proud, and will being great credit upon himself and the United States Army during his service.

Thank you for sharing that video with us. While this Forum is primarily a place for the discussion of ammunition, the great comraderie that forms among people of like interest cannot and should not be ignored here.