New (to me) Turkish Heastamp


#1

I have seen a number of Turkish headstamps with “T.C” or T over C at the top, which basically stands for Turkey like the two on the left below on a number of calibers. I have never seen the “MKE” associate with the “T.C”.

Has anyone seen this headstamp on any caliber cartridge?

Does anyone know the caliber of the cartridge at the far left below?

image

These are on rimmed rifle cases. I don’t know what the caliber is.

There is also a 7.63mm Mauser headstamp pictured with “F. T(over)C. I,.” at the top and the caliber at the bottom with two stars. Clearly a Geco/RWS load, probably from the 1930s. Has anyone seen this before on any caliber?

image

I believe that F T(over)C I is a headstamp used on ammunition bought on contract from outsie Turkey. There are quite a few headstamps known:

imageimage image
9mm Para

9mm Para load are also known with a headstamp like that on the left, but “9.P.” at the bottom. I am told this headstamp is also shown on an SFM drawing. There is also a 6.35mm Browning round headstamped “F. T(over)C. I. AEP”

Does anyone know of any other “F. T(over)C. I.” marked headstamps cartridge or variations of the headstamps above?

I would appreciate images of other “F. T(over)C. I” headstamps not illustrate here.

Any help appreciated.

Cheers,
Lew

These heastamps are from BOCN.co.uk


#2

Lew, something got confused it seems. The hs with “N.7.62” is a 7.62x39R Nagant Revolver (Russian type) no 9x19.


#3

The headstamp on the left with only the F T(over)C Iis the 9mm Para. That is why the 9mm Para is under it, at least on my screen. The caliber of the other two is obvious from the headstamps.

I think I see what happened. If I narrow down the width of the Forum display, the image of he Nagant hst moves down to the next line and over the label “9mm Para” intended to be under the headstamp at the far left.

The three headstamp images should all be on one line!

Cheers,
Lew


#4

Lew, when MKEK was established in 1950 their products were still regulated by the Republic of Turkey Monopoly Administration (Türkiye Cumhuriyeti Tekel İdaresi), but this lasted for a brief periof of time because gunpowder, explosives and related products were released from this monopoly in 1955. MKEK Boxes from this timeframe are marked “T. C. Tekel İdaresi” and cartridges are headstamped “T.C M K E”.

First pictures shows three different 7.62 mm Nagant revolver headstamps, last one from said MKEK monopoly era. Last picture shows an example made by Gévelot.

Regards,

Fede


#5

Here are two 9mm Kurz: the left hand one, at 6h is a Christmas tree, not an A
c a f a C M K E

7.63 Mauser
Tcafa ftci 403 TURKEY

44 Russian
ST

7.65 Browning
F TC I

9mm Browning Long
AEP F TC I


#6

I have received an SFM rawing which appears to be the “F T(over)C I” headstamps they produced.

The 7.63M headstamp Will posted (F T(over)C I 403 ) is on this list so is clearly a product of SFM.

The Nagant drawubg may be the headstamp I show in my post, but the SFM rawing is not a good copy and it looks more like “F.7.62” instead of “N.7.62”.

The other calibers shown with “F T(over)C I” headstamps are:

Aut. 6.35 ( “F. T(over)C. I C ???” probably-not clear-could be 413)
8m/m Mle 92 ( “F. T(over)C. I 8.92” probably-not clear)
Nagant cal 3000 ( “F. T(over)C. I 300” probably-not clear)
Paraabellum 9m/m ( “F. T(over)C. I P.9.”)
Montenegrin ( “F. T(over)C. I MONTENEGRIN”)
320 2e Qualite ( “F. T(over)C. I 320”)
380 2e Qualite ( “F. T(over)C. I 380”)
44 S et W 2e Qualite ( “F. T(over)C. I 44 S.W.R”)

If anyone has examples of any of these headstamps please post images or at least let me know.

If there are other "F T(over)C I style headstamps please provide images or descriptions of them. I know there are examples in some collections that have not yet been documented here. Your help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Lew


#7

i have received a bi of information from another collector who has also has a 7.65 Browning like that illustrated by Will, and a 7.65 Parabellum headstamped
“F. T(over)C. I P.7,65”.

Anyone else out there with these headstamps, please post or send me a copy.

Cheers,
Lew


#8

Lew,

  1. here are the hstps of the drawings I gave you (I checked with another document)

7.63M Mauser (F T(over)C I 403 )

7.62 Russian Nagant (F T(over)C I N.7.62”.)

6.35 Brg ( “F. T(over)C. I C 6.35)

8m/m Mle 92 ( “F. T(over)C. I 8.92” )

Nagant cal 300 ( “F. T(over)C. I 300” )

9 mm Paraabellum ( “F. T(over)C. I P.9.”)

11.3 Montenegrin ( “F. T(over)C. I MONTENEGRIN”)

320 2e Qualite ( “F. T(over)C. I 320”)

380 2e Qualite ( “F. T(over)C. I 380”)

44 S et W 2e Qualite ( “F. T(over)C. I 44 S.W.R”)

  1. Some source says there is another hstp on another drawing (but I don’t have it to confirm)

9 mm Steyr ( “F. T(over)C. I St 9")

  1. the same source makes reference to another ctge (saying it is on one of the drawings I gave you, but it is not!).

7.65 Parabellum ( “F. T(over)C. I P 7.65")

  1. He said also after 1945 there was another order of
    5.6 velodog
    8 mm Mod 92
    38 S&W long
    44 S&W
    with the same hstp as before but also 2 stars (at 3 and 9 oc)

But I have not the drawings

  1. We have of course shotshells with this kind of hstp

JP


#9

JP,

MANY THANKS!!!

Great information. If copies of these drawings every become available, I would love to have a copy!

I will leave putting the Shotshell part of this together to you. That is a field where I have no knowledge at all.

Cheers,
Lew


#10

Nagant Long
I 300
7.62 Nagant
62
9x23 Steyr
9

NOT IN MY COLLECTION:
7.65 Para
FTCI

7.65 Browning
7,65


#11


62 Gevelot, a
62 Gevelot, b


#12

made by sfm for turkey
order from 1929
jp


#13

bd,
Very interesting box. In a seperate task, i am putting together some data on early Turkish boxes to the 1970s. Some of the boxes that came out of Turkey from before WWII have strange labels that do not look like they were by a European country. it has been speculated by a pretty insightful collector that they may be overlables applied in Turkey over the European labels like yours. Your label makes this idea seem more likely!

Many thanks!

Lew


#14

Just received info from another collector. He confirms he has F TC I headstamps on the following calibers:

8 Lebel
380 Brit. Rev.

He also has some other F TC I headstamped rounds. I am interested to see if the headstamps are different from those posted above.

Again, any help appreciated.

Cheers,
Lew


#15

Hello,

just a quick note to tell you FN made shotshells with the FTCI hstp.

therefore perhaps they made also hand guns ctges with the same hstp.

JP


#16

Great info JP. Thanks!!!

Lew


#17

what do they look like ? arab characters ?
jp


#18

Hello Lew,

  1. Here are the drawings of the ctges made by SFM before WWII

I sent you already some of these drawings but these news ones are in better condition
And you will find here a new one (9 mm Steyr)


2) About the ctges made after WWII I have still not finished to sort my pictures,

  1. The calibers and hstps are :
    6.35 Brg ( “F. T(over)C. I C 6.35)

7.62 Russian Nagant (F T(over)C I N.7.62”.)

Nagant cal 300 ( “F. T(over)C. I 300” )

7.63M Mauser (F T(over)C I 403 )

8m/m Mle 92 ( “F. T(over)C. I 8.92” )

9 mm Parabellum ( “F. T(over)C. I P.9.”)

9 mm Steyr ( “F. T(over)C. I St 9")

11.3 Montenegrin ( “F. T(over)C. I MONTENEGRIN”)

320 2e Qualite ( “F. T(over)C. I 320”)

380 2e Qualite ( “F. T(over)C. I 380”)

44 S et W 2e Qualite ( “F. T(over)C. I 44 S.W.R”)

  1. As i told you before FN made also this kind of ctges. And other companies also.
    You will see for example the 9mm Steyr showed by Will is not coming from SFM.

JP


#19

Hello Lew
in a precedent post you said :

" In a seperate task, putting together some data on early Turkish boxes to the 1970s. Some of the boxes that came out of Turke,y from before WWII have strange labels that do not look like they were by a European country. it has been speculated by a pretty insightful collector that they may be overlables applied in Turkey over the European labels like yours"

what do they look like ? arab characters ? picture please
jp


#20

I found the other calibers

32 S&W Long ( “F. T(over)C. I 8.92” )
38 S&W Long ( “F. T(over)C 38 S.W.L)
7.65 Parabellum ( “F. T(over)C. P 7.65)
450 CF ( “F. T(over)C 450)
7.65 Browning ( “F. T(over)C C 7.65)
32 S&W Long ( “F. T(over)C 32 S.W.L)
38 S&W ( “F. T(over)C 38 S;W.)


They are other hstps for Monopoles Turcs but this is another story!

Finished !
JP