Newton cartridges


#1

Hi guys

I’m from Norway and I am new on this forum.

I have a special interest in Chas Newton and his cartridges.

I recently built a rifle chambered for the .30 Newton and are currently building one chambered for the .40 Newton.

I do also collect the Newton cartridges. I have most of them including wildcats based on them like the .400 Niedner, .400 Gipson and newer wildcats like the 9.3x64 Newton and .416 Newton.

However I still miss an original .22 Newton and a .270 Newton. I have .22 Newton cases based on both the 6mm Rem and 7x57, but no original cases. The .270 Newton seems to be very hard to get, although not designed by Newton, it’s still an interesting case.

So I wondered if any of you guys had any of this cases or know where to get them.

I have also read about a .33 Newton case produced by Speer with the .33 Newton headstamp. Have any of you seen one of those?

And there was some Newton cases produced at the German DWM factory. I have been in contact with Harald Wolf who builds a copy of the Newton Leverbolt rilfe, and he said that one the cases was a wildcat case based on the big Newton case. He had been to the museum and seen the factory records, but he couldn’t remember the dinmensions of the case. Does anyone know something about this?

I am also interested in information regarding the Newton Express and Adolph Express cases as well as the .30 Adolph, and possibly where to get them. Near impossible I know, they are very rare.

Last, Bruce Jennings writes in his book about a .450 Newton. Supposedly it fired a 500 grs bullet at 3000 fps. I have never heard mention of this case anywhere else, but maybe someone here has.

Thanks.

Allan


#2

The Newton Rifle by L Wales.
I have a copy of this one and the original book published.
I could send you the first book for your collection if wanted.
These are definately worth buying.

newtonrifles.com/

Glenn Jackson


#3

Allan
Glad to see you found the forum.


#4

Allan,

Welcome to the Forum. Great subject to be into! While you wait for the experts to weigh in, here are a couple of items you mention.

.270 Newton on the left. The one on the right is a .33 Newton from .35 brass. Never seen a .33 Newton Speer case but that doesn’t mean they’re not out there!

Dave


#5

You may have seen these on another forum, and you already have copies of the one (neither of these has a headstamp)

22 Newton-Krag and 22 Newton

Edit to correct labeling


#6

Hi Allan , welcome to this forum

PS : I am looking for a 7 x 64 for you .Did you receive the 40" bullets?


#7

Thanks for the welcome guys.

Glenn, thanks. But I do have both books by Larry Wales and the Bruce Jennings book.

Dave, thanks for the photos. You don’t happen to have more than one of the .270 Newton? I have .33 Newtons made from .35 (Speer and Western) and .30 (Speer). But one with a .33 headstamp seems to be difficult to find.

Hi Bob. Yes I found my way in, thanks for the link. Yes, I have seen the photo before. The one on the right would be especially interesting…

Hi again Marco. No .40 bullets yet, will purchase some Woodleighs when I have the rifle finished. I have found some 7x64.

Allan


#8

Allen
I had to correct the labeling, as I had them backwards


#9

Allan,

Sorry, but that .270 Newton’s an only one. The Speer cases are out there but can’t say I’ve seen any for sale lately. .30’s and .35’s yes.

A Speer box I’ve seen (can’t remember which caliber) had text on the back about the .270, .30 and .35, but no mention of the .33…

Are your .33 Newtons .333 dia.?

Dave


#10

Hey Allan. Welcome to the Forum. I haven’t talked to you in a while. After my PC crashed I didn’t re-register on the other Forum so you won’t find me there anymore. I am still looking but haven’t found anything else for you.

I have just the one 270 Newton myself. It’s the only one I’ve ever seen until Dave posted his photo.

There are 33 Newton’s by Speer. There was one for sale on an auction a couple of months ago. It came with 4 other standard Newton cartridges. I bid on them a couple of times but when the bidding got over $100 I dropped out. I don’t know what they finally went for but it was more than I was willing to pay.

I have a Speer 30 Newton draw piece that I’ll dig out and post a photo, maybe tomorrow.

Ray


#11

Dave, I have only two .33 Newtons with bullets, both have a .333 diameter bullets. These are dummies. These are made from .35 Newton cases. The rest I have are only empty cases.

Newton himselfe did only build one rifle chambered for the .33 Newton, but decided that the round wasn’t necessary as long as he had the .30 and .35 Newton.

Ray, nice to hear from you again. And very interesting that you have seen a .33 Newton made by Speer. Then we know they are out there.

As for the .270 Newton, it seem to be a difficult one to get, but not impossible.

As for other rare Newtons, I will soon get a couple of .276 Newton cases. These are made from the 9,3x64 Brenneke, the original headstamp is removed and they are headstamped .276 N.


#12

What about the 256 Newton? Is is a actual Newton development It has an actual 256 NEWT WESTERN headstamp. Vic


#13

Vic

The 256 Newton is a real cartridge and not uncommon. It can be found with several headstamps. It is actually 6.5mm, the “256” being the bore diameter. Newton developed it back in the early 1900s. It came from the wildcat 25-50-117 which was a joint venture of Newton, Niedner, and Mann. After Mann died, Newton decided he wanted a big game cartridge so he expanded the neck to 6.5mm and thus was born the 256 Newton. Niedner stuck with the 25 caliber since he was more interested in a varmint cartridge and the result was the 25 Niedner, aka the 25-06.

I was going to do a mini-article on these but I guess I just did. The full article is in JOURNAL #461.

Ray


#14

In case anyone is looking through the Journal index for Ray’s article, thought I’d mention that it is titled “80 Years with the .25-06” and very worth the read.

In looking at the reprint Newton catalogs available ( cornellpubs.com/old-guns/historic-newton.php ) the various indexes list the following Newton calibers: .22, .25 (perhaps the .25-50-117 or the .250-3000?), .256, .280, .30, .33, .35, and curiously, “The .49 Caliber Cartridge”, which I will assume is a typo on the reprint people’s part and is actually the .40.

Two questions: Was the .280 actually made (a 7mm Newton)? and of all the above listed calibers, which can be found with actual Newton Arms (like “N.A.Co.”) head stamps?

Thanks,
Dave


#15

I actually have a .25-06, an excellent round.

As for your questions Dave.

The .280 Newton is a rare one. I have got this info from the Bruce Jennings book. He says there were two version of the .280 Newton. An early version, which was the .30 Newton case necked down to take .288 bullets. Newton himselfe said that the .30 Newton case was a failure in the .280 caliber. He couldn’t get 2900 fps with the 145 grs Ross bullet. He probably built only one experiment rifle with these dimensions.

The .280 Newton mentioned in the early catalogs of Newton Arms was probably never fully developed as Newton wasn’t satisfied with it’s performance. He developed cartridges for performance, rather than just the philosophy that bigger is better as to the powder capacity standpoint. He tuned the cartridges for optimum powder capacity.

Jennings then writes that the .280 Newton listed in the Buffalo Newton “A” and “B” catalogs must be a different case. In searching through all the cartridge cases in use at that time that there were available for adaption he found that only by shortening and necking down the 10.75x68 the dimensions would be correct. This would make a fine loking rimless case with .492" head diameter that will do all the 7mm RM would do.

I know only of custom built rifles with these dimensions.

I have both versions, one on a necked down .30 Newton case and one made from a 10.75x68 case.

As for the NA.CO or NA.CORP headstamps, these cases can be found: .22, .256, .30, .35. And I would guess the .280, .33 and .40. Although the latter would be necked down or necked up versions of the other cases, and would be extremely hard to find today. In have also seen a .30 Adolph with the NA.CO headstamp.

Allan


#16

What about this one:

Although I’m not entirely sure about the headstamp.


#17

Allan,

Thanks for the info on the .280 and headstamps. That “.33” looks like it might be an overstamp? Would be interesting to know if that’s an example of what Ray saw at auction as if it is an overstamp, it looks fairly well done. On the otherhand, could be the real deal?

Dave


#18

Having & currently worked with the un-official Speer/CCI historian (no official historian exists so this is as close as it gets) I asked him about the .33 NEWTON “I’ve never heard of that but am reluctant to speculate that it never happened. Individual employees can do strange things.” The photo shown by Newton has an overstamped 5. Larry Wales states “but[ {emphasis added} Speer may have made some brass for it from 1948 to1950”. He is not sure and is postulating.

The 270 Newton is not an original Newton but developed by Ackley and marketed by Speer under the Newton name and used the ‘basic’ Newton .30 / .35 case.

The 7mm Newton is likely a .40 3 1/4" case necked to 7mm and like the .30 is called the Newton but for double rifles made by Fred Adolph.
See the Fred Adolph catalog re-print as offered by George Hoyem at the center of the booklet. [no page number, so open at the staples]. I’m not sure were Larry Wales got his statement on pg 4 of his 2nd edition, about the 7mm Special. Perhaps it was from a necked down rebated rim brass11 mm Schuler case that Fred Adolph worked with in a number of caliber variations? My 7mm example has a B STAHL headstamp and a CN jacketed copper tipped spitzer bullet. However that doesn’t fit very well with a .280 Remington.
So…


#19

When I saw the 33 Newton on the auction I asked the owner to verify the headstamp. He did and reported back that it did indeed say “33 NEWTON”. Since he is a collector I assumed that it was authentic. Of course, now I know that it possibly could have been an overstamp such as the one shown.

I have a Speer 270 Newton draw piece so there’s no doubt that Speer made these as one of a series and not made by overstamping. Also, I have talked to shooters who confirm that they were available in quantity at one time. The big question is, where did they all go?

I’ve never heard of the Ackley connection. Ackley was not usually into such things as simply necking down an existing case and then marketing it. But, what do I know?

Also, not to argue with the Speer “historian” but do the Speer Newton cases date from the 1948 to 1950 period? I always thought they were later than that.

Sharpe’s book, The Rifle In America has a chapter on the Newton rifles and cartridges. Anyone interested in Newtons should read it.

Ray


#20

For what it’s worth, I’ve always thought the font used on the .30 and 35 Newton Speer cases looked like that used on the Speer-DWM products. My .270 case has a distinctly different style. My old Speer No. 8 manual has a company history that indicates Speer joined up with DWM in 1967 to enter the loaded ammunition market. No mention is made of empty cases.

Speer has been in Lewiston since 1944 when Vernon moved there to manufacture .22 bullets from rimfire cases. Thus, the Lewiston marked Newton case boxes don’t lend much for dating the product.

Dave

Added: I overlooked the fact that the older Speer products (like the Newton case boxes I’ve seen and a vintage box of bullets I have) were in boxes marked as “Speer Products Company” and at some time that was changed to “Speer Incorporated” before their association with Omark Industries. Again, for what it’s worth…