NGA Eliminator 9x19

Hi guys,

has someone a prospect or datasheet of the NGA Eliminator which explains the diferences between the red and blue capped 9x19 Eliminator.

Best regards and thanks in advanced

Chris

Chris - I have a fair file on NGA and the “Eliminator” bullets and loadings. However, nothing I have, including factory brochures, notes any difference in the full production versions of 9 x 19 mm Eliminator between blue and red plastic caps. The only reference I can find to it is a very nice article from South Africa written by Will Reuter, pretty well accepted as being one of the top experts on South African ammunition (and, by the way, ammunition in general), in 2003. In that article it says “…#120 and 11 are the standard production models of which the red cap is reportedly for local (South African) market and the blue is for export.”

I weighed properly headstamped (NGA 9mm-LUGER) rounds with red and blue caps, and found the red one had a total cartridge weight of 157.00 grains and the blue one of 156.4 grains, essentially identical. Both of these have 90 grains bullets.

All that said, some rounds were imported into the United States, the date of importation I have now forgotten but my impression is that is was later than the article from 2003. Contrary to the article, which is not indicating the article was incorrect at the time it was written, these had red plastic caps, and a stated bullet weight of 80 grains. I weighed a box specimen, and true to the label, total cartridge weight was 146.7 grains, for all practical purposes precisely 10 grains lighter than the other weighed specimens.

Just for the record, the box label of those import rounds, with 80 grain (5.2 gram) bullets show a MV of 1375 fps (419 mps) and rate the cartridges as “Plus P” which is not so-indicated on the headstamp.

I have only a mediocre collection of these rounds, but even then, it is over a dozen specimens. Some of the early ones have no caps at all. Whether they were intended to have them or not. Mr. Reuter mentions that “Feeding was a problem which necessitated the use of a plastic cap” so the rounds in question may have been prototypes tested prior to use of the rounded bullet cap.

In the developmental stage, many different colors were used. Most of these can be grouped in the class we tend to call “experimentals.” However, black tips are known on production rounds, generally loaded into nickel cases. The article mentioned attributes this color to an attempt to capitalize on the “Black Talon” loads by Winchester. Evidently, when the uproar over Black Talon cartridges started, for silly reasons including a total misunderstanding of the action of the bullet when striking a target (remember the “Buzz
Saw” hype?), NGA changed the color to Red. According to Mr. Reuter, “60,000 black ones were made; most of them were loose bullets for hand loading.”

While part of the long list of cartridge types experimented with, and in some cases reaching serial production, the NGA Sentry rounds, as the “Eliminators” were eventually called, perhaps another sop to political correctness, are sometimes confused with the Monad Series of cartridges, which is a different story.

My summary statement on the colors would be that the red and blue caps do NOT identify any technical differences in the “Eliminator” cartridges, at least according to all the information I have at hand, virtually all from RSA sources.

John Moss

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The story behind the color change from the black cap to the red and blue cap was told to me a few years ago by a collector from South Africa.
The development of the “Eleminator” was commissioned by the South African police. After a number of prototypes, the Eliminator with the black nose cap was the first to be used as a test cartridge with the police in South Africa (where exactly in South Africa I don’t know exactly anymore). The cartridge was used, among other things, to suppress insurrection in the slum. Because most people in the slum had a dark skin color, the nickname soon became “Black Eliminator”.
This was politically quite sensitive and soon the cartridge was fitted with a red or blue nose cap and the name was changed to “Sentry”. Attached a photo with the cap removed from both the “Eleminator” the “Sentry” as well as the “monad” that was a development in a THV-like concept

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I have this.



Dan

John Moss, r308 and Dan thank you very very much for the input!

I found the following document from NGA which listed the 9x19 bullet with 78 grs.

Chris

NGA-Eliminator.pdf (3,1 MB)

Galgenberg - nice brochure. Thanks for posting it. I have a few of their Tech Bulletins, but didn’t have that one.

They actually made 9 mm rounds with at least 80 grain and 90 grain bullets, perhaps other weights as well during development. The 80-grain bullet may well be the same projectile as the 78 grain, simply with the terminology “rounded up” to an even number. Or, it could represent a slight change to the bullet.

Attached is a box label photo of ammunition sold in the USA - red capped bullet as mentioned above - some years ago.

John Moss

John, thanks a lot again!

Chris

I checked my bullet from the Orlando Shot Show. It weight is 79.05 gr.


The loaded round came from the top label, not the show. It’s at 150.85 gr.

NGA hs IMI case
Oddly in .40 S&W, the IMI Dummy was 159.1 and the NGA Dummy was 183.1 grains. So probably different bullet weights. A fired bt. was 106.25, but a couple ears are missing.
40 hs
loaded NGA 199.9 gr., new empty NGA 71.8 gr., fe IMI 68.15 gr., but don’t know what bullet it had. For what it’s worth. Dan (Bottom 3 have the red bullet.) The fired bullet and the IMI Dummy came from the shot show.

As you can see, a 79.05 grain bullet is shown on the label as being 180 grains. There are some variances in these things. Just depends on how tight they maintain their specs.
I know the bullet did not come from the label, as you mentioned, but 79.05 would be in spec for most manufacturers for 80 grain bullet. At 7000 grains to a pound, which is what I remember from my reloading days, The difference between a 79.05 grain bullet and one exactly 80.00 grains is pretty tiny.

John Moss

Dan, could you tell me the oal of the loaded, red capped .40 S&W Eliminator?

Regards Chris

Galgenberg - I have three specimens of the .40 S&W NGA red-capped rounds. They are in OACL as follows: 1.1315"; 1.1325"; and 1.1390". The last one is visually longer with more of the silver-cover portion of the bullet exposed above the case mouth.

A loose bullet in my collection weighs 112.6 grains, and has an OAL of 0.7135" not including the the tiny little spire at the very center of the bullet nose, which I think has more to do with the production method of the caps than by design. It is too tiny to perform any useful function.

John Moss

Hi John, do you have nipples…on yours?
Headstamps, the bottom row above post.
40 profile


Chris, bottom row left to right.
L IMI Dummy 1.141 OA., 1.125 off of nipple
C NGA Dummy 1.143 OA 1.130 off of nipple
R NGA loaded 1.137 OA It looks like the nipple was filed off. See picture.
I don’t know if sold that way, but the way I got it.
Note, the small center did not show up good, on the NGA Dummy pictured left.
Dan

I have already put those cartridges away, but I think the little projection was still there enough to effect measurement on two of the .40 cartridges I measure, as well as on my separate bullet. That’s why I mentioned it. I seem to recall that one had the projection removed. In some .40 magazines, that projection could actually be enough, I think, to be a potential friction jam in the magazine as it would bear against the inner front of the magazine. I am surprised they didn’t remove that at all. Like I said, I am sure it is a product of manufacturing method, and not of bullet design.

John Moss

Just to perhaps fill out this interesting thread a wee bit here is a .38 SPL +P box again without the +p in the headstamp, and interestingly enough with an 80 grain bullet, same as the 9mm Para box John shows.
it also has the tiny tip / nipple at the bullet nose but nothing important with that in use with a revolver.

Did the scans and uploads but there is still some info to add but FWIW here are the 45ACP’s from the RSA Reference List

http://www.cartridgecollector.net/45-acp-rsa

Regards
Daan
www.cartridgecollector.net

Here is a box of NGA 90 grs in .357 Magnum.
Sorry the condition of the lebel isn`t good.
Headstamp on cartridges is: NGA 357 MAGNUM

It would be nice if everyone of us who collects boxes, that they were all mint condition. The box is a source of information, however, and for that purpose, your nice NGA .357 box serves the purpose just fine. Thanks for posting that.

John Moss