Norma 7.62 Russ re-worked


#1

What happened here? I am confused. Is this a funny reload? Overall length 73mm, cartridge length 50.5mm,rim 14mm, projectile near mouth 8.1mm, cartridge near mouth 9mm. The powder inside sounds normal.


#2

100% sure that is a reload.
Looks like a cast, moly coated, un-lubed bullet.
Would likely lead the bore like heck.
Gregg


#3

Think leading the bore would depend on whether or not the bullet is gas-checked and at what velocities it was shot (and of course, bore condition). I have shot hundreds of these “dip-lubed” bullets in calibers like .44-40 and .45-70 with little or no leading. Of course, they were shot at low velocities (although none were gas-checked bullets). I agree the round is 99% sure a reload, by the way.


#4

I don’t think there is any doubt that this is a reload as if the dimensions given are correct then it is a Wildcat. I know of no factory produced 8x50R based on the 7.62x53 Russian. There are 8x53R produced in Russia and Finland but not this shortened case.


#5

WBD
Not so much a wildcat, but more likely a conversion. Most likely iit’s a 8x50R Austrian (or possibily a Siamese) that hasn’t been fireformed yet (IIRC the shoulders are more radiused on the 8x50R) .


#6

Bob

I had the same thought as you. But unless there is a fire-formed example to go with it, we’re just guessing. I’d say it could go either way - a wildcat or a conversion to another cartridge.

Ray


#7

Ray
I have about a dozen pieces of brass, at home, that look like Vlad’s (right down to the headstamp), But than again I used to own 3 M-95’s chambered for the 8x50R round.


#8

Bob

That is pretty convincing evidence in favor of Vlad’s cartridge being a re-formed 8x50R rather than a wildcat.

Ray


#9

So Ray, you are saying that Vlad’s example is an 8x50R Mannlicher ?


#10

I don’t know how I became the expert here. I don’t know what Vlad’s case is. It could be one of several things. I’d have to have it in my hands for detailed measurements and even then I couldn’t be sure without knowing it’s provenance. During the first steps in making a wildcat or in reforming one case into another, shapes and dimensions may or may not be what the final product will look like.

Ray


#11

I know far less than Ray. I do know that whoever did this reloading was busy(eeeee)!!! All these have identical headstamp of “Norma 7.62 Russ”.


#12

Vlad

If all those cartridges are the same as the one you described I think we can rule out the possibility that they are not yet in their final form waiting to be fire-formed.

The clips should be a good clue since they would tell the particular firearm and possibly the cartridge.

Unless it’s a re-barrel job and wildcat cartridges.

Good Luck. ;) ;)

Ray


#13

The clips are all for the 8x50R Mannlicher cartridge and rifle, and are copies of the original Austrian M.88, solid sided, pattern. TTBOMK Austria didn’t make any brass ones of these, and in1890 changed the pattern to the familiar one with the window in the sidewalls, so they are probably recent copies that I personally haven’t come across before. The Russians made some of these clip for use in captured Mannlichers, but the ones I have seen were of a simplified design.

Have they got any maker’s marks on them?


#14

The markings are “KC” on all of them.


#15

Vlad

Very interesting! KC is the mark of Keller & Cie, so they seem to be original early Austrian production


#16

Sorry, it was poor indoor lighting. Here is the whole “bag” from a local show, I could not resist $2/charger price and had no time and knowledge to go through all the chargers so I bought the whole cigar box. It was Swisher sweet Florida-made cigars, do you want to see the box? Anyhow, all chargers are magnetic steel. All but 2 have one “KC” on the side. The front one is not 8x50R, it is something bigger, and has no markings at all. It has Czech made “lion,35,I,m-in-a-circle” 8x50R inside, the one on the very right is marked “CR” and contains “lion,1939,BF” Bulgarians.


#17

Vlad


#18

Correct, it is “GR”. Thanks.


#19

I may be guessing but I would have said the lead bullets are being used specifically for the purpose of fireforming the cases. Any old bullet will do and the cheaper the better.

The coating on the bullet could be moly but for cast bullets graphite is common.