Norwegian 7.62x51 NATO Cartridges


#1

I won this at last years IAA silent auction at SLICS.
Morten Stoen from Norway made the display and donated to the IAA Silent Auction.
This is a very fine cartridge board made by a great guy.

Headstamps from left to right
NATO 88-RA-75
NATO 9 - RA-73
NATO 3 - RA-67
NATO 29-RA-80
NATO 06-RA-01
NHS
NHS
20-BF-96
CROWN 2 RAUFOSS 5
NHS
NHS
2 - RA-76
6 583 8
NATO 3-RA-70

Bob R.


#2

Nice board. How are the cartridges attached? I can’t tell if it’s elastic, string or wire.


#3

Very nice board Bob! Do you know the difference in use between the two short range cartridges?


#4

There were some complaints on the accuracy of the NM8 short range when used in the Norwegian built AG3 (G3) automatic rifle. So they shortened the prosjectile and made it less pointed and called the new cartridge NM127. These cartridges are not headstamped, but from boxes in my collection, it seems likely that this took place in 1972/73.

The cartridges are fastened with a long elastic string, fasteded in both ends.

morten


#5

Thanks for the info Morten, much appreciated!


#6

I know this is an old thread, but I have some question about Norwegian shortrange ammunition:

In the book, MS 5-8, 7.62 x 51 Automatisk gevær 3 from 1967, there is a reference to a short range round called NM63. It’s said to be of blue plastic, with weight of bullet 0,7 g and complete weight is 9 g. Is there a way to distiguish this round from NM8 and NM127?

I’ve gone through my collection of short range cartrigdes, and have found some that looks the same as NM8, but have a brasscolored head. I also have a few that equals NM127 in size, with brasscolored head, but silvercolored primer. At last I have one that is equal as 127 in size, but with aluminum head and silver primer, and it has a headstamp: 01-BF-99. I guess this is just a late NM127, although the plastic seems to be of a different alloy.

In the same book, there is also a reference to a blank round, called NM64, with is a blank made of plastic, with olive color. Does anyone have a picture of this round, and possible of the box it came in?


#7

PSG1, do you have a copy of the pages in the book you refer to? It sounds like a manual for the AG3 automatic rifle, which is a licensed copy of the H&K G3 rifle made at Kongsberg våpenfabrikk in Norway. Those two NM-numbers do not exist in any list of NM numbers that I am aware if.

morten


#8

These NM 63 and NM 64 mentioned in the AG3 manual are Norwegian designations for DM18 and DM28 cartridges of German manufacture (DAG).


#9

That is interesting, Fede, and could well be true. But the numbers still do not exist in the official list of NM numbers. Do you have any documents that could shed some more light on this?


#10

I will upload a scann of that page tomorrow


#11

Morten, what is this official list you speak of? I have been trying to collect NM-numbers for a while…

I believe the NM64 was a short-lived project to replace the red practice rounds with olive coloured ones to avoid all those cases of hikers complaining about the ugliness of casing heaps in areas used for military exercises. The reason it died off was that one thought it would be easy to mistake an NM127 for an olive colour practice round, and thus fire one off right into a blank fire adaptor.

tennsats / Ole


#12

Here is a scan of the frontpage of the manual:

And here’s the actual txt desribing the different ammunition to use with AG-3:

I would like to see a box of NM63 and NM64, if they exist. As you can see of the txt, they haven’t yet decided on the right number for the drill-round, which is now NM42.


#13

psg1, the ballistician in me cannot resist the question: does the AG-3 manual contain a firing table (skytetabell) of the NM60 cartridge? Is it possible to post a photo of the table? I wonder if it differs from the Swedish or the German data.
Sorry for being a bit off-topic, but the temptation is too great.


#14

No problem, I’ll try to find it and post later.


#15

Here’s the table:

Is this what you’re after? Let me know if you need any translation.


#16

Great information. Thank you VERY much.

The numbers in ballistics mostly speak for themselves. It is quite clear what they mean and Norwegian has the same origins as German. For example, “790” is most probably the muzzle velocity of a G3 type weapon, even without the text. For a German “Utgangshasdighet” is quite obviously “Anfangsgeschwindigkeit” (starting velocity). “Ausgang” and “Hast” also exists in German.
The mentioning of “Facella” (should be [Ettore] Fasella) shows that the Siacci drag law was used. This is the main information I was after.
Again, thanks a lot.


#17

Thanks for the scan, psg1. I don’t have this old manual.
@Tennsats: The list is simply the listing of NM-numbers in the military system.


#18

No problem, it’s nice to be able to contribute for once. Mostly I’m only asking help here on this forum.

The same manual also have a table for Raufoss 7.62 match ammunition. I don’t know if this is the same as NM60, because I have never seen this ammunition. It has the same bullet, but seems to have different velocity. Here’s a scan of those pages:

By the way, the tables in this and the previous post, is from another manual. I’m not sure if this is the right translation, but it’s more like advanced shooting:


#19

It is from a technical viewpoint definitely the same ammunition, only the muzzle velocity is higher from the M59F1 sniper rifle (longer barrel). Note that also the higher muzzle velocity from the MG3 is mentioned (54 cm barrel) compared to G3 (45 cm) on the same page.
Of course good shooting lots of NM60 might have been specially marked for sniper use.

Before our American readers complain: the Fasella coefficient C is numerically not the same as the BC used in the U.S. because it it based on a different standard projectile caliber and mass.


#20

Well, the txt on the first page says that military ammunition shot in the same rifle, will give higher velocity, so it seems like this is a loading suited for the sniper gun. It has the same projectile, but a smaller load. I should have translated the txt, roughly it says:

The shooting table is calculated for sniper rifle KV M59F1, velocity = 840m\s.
Military ammunition shot in the same rifle gives Vo about 870ms due to being loaded to higher pressure, and will give a flatter trajectory than given ( in this table ). Military ammunition shot in AG-3 gives a velocity of 790ms and in MG-3 815m`s. The trajectory will then have a samller radius.

Sorry for my bad translation, but I guess you get the point.