Odd(ball) Spanish 9x19 ball cartridge


#1

Hi,

Wondering if someone can ID the leftmost round (type and/or authenticity?)

The label that its former owner put on says “9mm PARA Ball Expert Spania” (Spania being Norwegian for Spain).

Headstamp is “9-P SB-T 72”.
Green primer annulus.
OAL is just around 23mm.

  • Ole

#2

Forgive my spelling, but I believe you have what is known as a “Doronzorro” loading. They are a round, jacketed bullet, found in a number of Spanish-produced calibers, intended for anti-riot use.


#3

John Moss in his book on the 9x23mm illustrates five experimental versions of this riot control cartridge designed by Spanish General Dorronzoro (pg 51). My 9mmP is a GM plated steel ball, not jacketed. it is the only variation I know of in 9mmP.

The 9x23mm bullets are either steel, GM plated steel, and one is apparently solid GM. The maximum range is 500 meters and this was judged by some as too powerful for riot control.The rounds were developed at the Carabanchel Proving Ground though CETME may have produced some of them.

I have only documented the 9mmP load with the 72 date. I expect there was only one experimental batch of these rounds. Nice round.

Cheers,
Lew


#4

Although the books by Lanza and Molina-Orea identify this type of load as an anti-riot or less-lethal cartridge, this is is not correct. In fact, it was just the opposite, because it was made for a weapon/cartridge concept intended to have high velocity, high lethal effect, less recoil and less barrel wear, this last two features supposedly achieved because of the use of smooth-bore barrels. The 9x19 and 9x23 loads were tested in a modified CETME C2 submachine gun.

This loading was experimented in other service calibers like the 7.9x57 and .38 Special, and also in two prototype case types: the 7.62x40 and 7.62x42. Also, this load exists in 7x57, 7.62x51 and 7.65 mm Browning, all undocumented. Most have a single ball, but double and triple loadings also exists. Lastly, only one particular load was indeed conceived as a less-lethal cartridge, but was a .38 Special loaded with rubber balls.

Regards,

Fede