Odd Tokarev Flutes


#1

Has anyone ever seen a 7.62x25 Tokarev dummy marked in this manner? It has a brass case, heavily struck brass primer, 6 neck stab crimps, and no headstamp. The four short flutes on the shoulder appear to be factory and uniform, and evenly spaced.



#2

Jonny - would be nice to know the headstamp!

I note it has the double neck crimps.

Have never seen this variation. What country is it
from?

John M.


#3

John, I did mention that there is no headstamp, and the neck stab/dot crimps. I did intentionally leave out that it came with a few other rounds from Russia, as I wanted to leave the door open for other possibilities. I do believe that it is pre-1945 Russian.


#4

Jon - my sincere apologies. I got so fixated on the photographs, I guess, that
I missed the mention of no headstamp in the text.

I wish I could identify that round for you. But, have never seen one. In context,
I would agree it is likely Russian. Not sure about the era, but you are probably
correct. I hesitate on that, because I have a typical Russian drill round in caliber
9 x 18 mm Makarov which has no headstamp. It would have to be post-1945 of course.
It is the only Russian 9 x 18 that I have encountered that is without a headstamp. Since
I believe these rounds were often made on reject cases, it is possible that my Mak round
is on a case rejected for missing the headstamp procedure. I have no other answer for
it. I cite this instance to show why I am not sure, although again, I lean towards total
agreement with you that your Tokarev round is pre-1945 Russian.

Thanks for the quick reply. Again, sorry I missed your original statement on lack of
headstamp.

John M.


#5

None needed, John, I always welcome and respect your input.
The round above came with some other dummies, pretty sure all are Russian.
From left:

  1. Tinned brass case, no h/s.
  2. Brass case, 3 grooves, 38 10 45 *.
  3. Brass case, wood bullet, 3 * 44 X.
  4. Short flutes described above.


#6

Nice group of rounds. I had not seen the tinned case with plain
bullet before, only a dummy completely tinned, including bullet.
Thanks for posting the picture.

John M.


#7

The tinned one is an armorers dummy! The wooden one appears Bulgarian to be honest.


#8

Could be Bulgarian; the Russian wood usually looking darker and more worn.


#9

Actually I never saw confirmed Russian ones with wooden bullets. May mean nothing but this is what I have noticed in 30 years.


#10

I have a few with 270 headstamps, if I recall. I’ll post then when I get the chance.


#11

The 270 does not indicate much as Bulgaria also reused plenty of Russian cases.


#12

Here are the “270” dummies I mentioned. They both have dark wood bullets, the right-hand example is actually red. Both have lacquered wood or leather “primers”. I believe they are Russian and not Bulgarian. I welcome any ideas or opinions.




#13

Some soviet serial dummys. With a tin-plated body and sand inside - before WW2…


#14

Beautiful photo. I will have to check my 7.62 Russian drill
rounds. I was not aware, off hand, that the 3-cannelure dummies
were found with and without a core. Also, while I recall seeing a picture
of one, I did not recall that the fluted dummies were found in CWS
cases, not dis I know they had a steel-core bullet.

Thanks for posting this.

John Moss


#15

Inertammo - That is great info and a fantastic picture! Do you have any thoughts on the dummy I posted with the short shoulder flutes and the examples with wood bullets?


#16

jonnyc - all rounds with wood bullets not Soviet. EOD is right. This is most likely Bulgaria. Despite the HS.
With shoulder flutes its most likely Soviet. I saw such people in the Pot-Soviet territory.