Old ctge : nordenfeld (1881)


#1

[color=#FF0000]To everybody :
I am looking for scans of old (pre WWI) British, German, Austrian, Belgian, Italian catalogues showing shotshells or shotshells factory drawings
I can trade them against old documentation (prior to WWI) consisting in factory drawings, exploded views, articles, aso, about of French, British, German machine guns, rifles, ctges, grenades, fuzes, primers aso.[/color]


#2

Here is your 1 inch Nord. proj. loaded into a US WW2 20mm case. Sold on ebay this week.


#3

That can’t be a 1" Nordenfelt proj as a 20x110RB Oerlikon case is less than 1" across even at its widest. That projectile moust be closer to 20mm.


#4

Don’t forget that the Oerlikon breech starts to open as the pressure is still high and that the case blows open as it moves rearwards. 20mm is about .8 so by the time it has recoiled and expanded it might be possible to fit a 1 inch proj in the neck.

However, I agree that it does not look like a 1 inch Nordenfelt. It is difficult to tell from the picture but there appears to be no brass envelope and it seems to have a driving band.

Regards
TonyE


#5

I compared my Nordenfelt projectile and a fired Oerlikon case. The case isn’t even 1" across just above the case head.


#6

Here is the other photo of the proj. The hs is typical US WW2 20mm . The point is easier to see here as well as the typical crimping cannelure . I asked if it has a steel point and the answer was obvious. The mouth of the case has been widened to get it in. The case measures 24.5mm just above the head. This case has been expanded which can be clearly seen in the second photo. The taper toward to projectile is obvious. I asked to have better photos put up but no dice.

They IDed it as a WW2 AA gun dummy.

If it had not been a stuffer I would have bought it.

They said the bullet would not come out which meant that it had to have been reduced in diameter at the base to get it into this case.

This is a damaged projectile to me. I have several loaded and loose.

I think that Woodin Lab has a .75 cal . Nord. in this design but this slug is a 1 inch.

The jackets on these vary in length.


#7

This is not the first of these which I have seen. Bannerman had cases of these loose projeciles. Years ago they could be bought at shows for $ 3-5 . Now they are more. I have seen them loaded in various types of cases including 1 inch flares.


#8

I don’t see the correlation because this junk and a beautifull genuine ctge.

Some people look like to love fakes (what i call fakes are bullets handloaded on any case).

When it is about some 9 para where anybody can put loose bullets on every case i can think some people are naive.
(PS : THV ctges are in fact dating from 1942 ! I found some loaded rounds on german cases ! Does it interest somebody ??
If not, I’ve heard of SIB bullets on DWM cases. I am sure i can find them.
Or do you prefer some Arcane 45 ACP on pre WWI US cases ? no problem !)

But when there is a drawing (dated from 1881) of a ctge , a drawing of the chamber, aso I don’t see the connection between this and a fake found on ebay.

In France too we have nordendeld loose rounds.
If the people like exotic rounds no problem I am sure it must not be too difficult to find an experimental hotckiss loaded with a nordenfeld bullet for high velocity test in the 30’.

CSAEOD, I showed an original drawing of an one inch gatling in another post.
And you asked about the fact the coiled case could be in fact not a Nordenfeld but a Gatling.
I put this post because I tought it could be of interest for you to see an original drawing of the nordenfeld ctge;

I don’t understand you because after posting the picture of the oerlikon you add later it was easy to find in the states loose rounds (and therefore to put them on any case).

What does it mean ?

  1. Did you showed the picture just to show the ebay one was a fake ? if yes why not to have say : look at this fake found on ebay !
  2. Do you think it was an experimental round ??
    Tony looks to wonder about that.

Anyway, a friend of mine who doesn’t read very much english called me and told me he saw on the forum that during the war some oerlikon rounds were loaded with nordenfeld bullets.

WHAT MUST I ANSWERED HIM ??

JP


#9

JP- Your excellent original post shows a lot of good information, and it is appreciated.

The following post clearly states:
“Here is your 1 inch Nord. proj. loaded into a US WW2 20mm case. Sold on ebay this week.”

That is good information for collectors to compare an item being sold with what it should look like by comparing to the drawings. Not everything being sold to collectors is real, so be careful, and research things, especially by consulting good reference material.

There is no reason to be offended by any of the posts.

I am locking this thread.