Old soviet revolver target cartridges


#1

Sorry for dragging this old subject up again but I was given this box today and wondered what it was.
This old thread explains some of it:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9830&p=70824&hilit=soviet+nagant+revolver#p70824
But the data JohnMoss had does not match the cartridges that was in my box:

The case length is closer to 24 mm and it’s not wadcutter bullets.
The box is otherwise exactly alike the one illustrated in the old thread. That thread was the only one I could find using the search function. Has any more on these soviet relics turned up since?
Soren

eta: spelling


#2

Yours here were reloaded or got the projectiles exchanged for what ever reason.
Normally these should be V-1 wadcutters as described before.


#3

You mention that the date on your cartridges did not match ones discussed by me (I don’t even remember the discussion - I don’t collect this caliber, but have had a yellow box with a few cartridges in it before, that someone gave me, from some international shoot in Phoenix, Arizona years ago. I haven’t had it for a long time and don’t recall it off-hand, although I may have stuff in my files about it.) However, you did not remind us of the date I mention, nor did you tell us the date on your cartridges, both of which are germane to your question. The rounds I have were, as I recall, a shorter case OAL than the military Russian Nagant 7.62 cartridges, and had the wadcutter bullet fully seated inside the case.

I would think from the box label that the date on cartridges in the box you show should be “74”.

EOD mentions that yours should have the wadcutter bullet, and are reloads. However, they seem to be short for the box, slightly, even with a bullet protruding from the case mouth 8+ millimeters. If they were originally WC bullets, and the cases have not been shortened, I would think the box would not be so deep.

Well, I only got into this thread because my name was mentioned. I am no authority on any revolver round, as I have never collected them or spent much time in study of that subject.


#4

I have this box. There are only 2 rounds left in it but they are as John describes. The case is about 38mm long and they have wad-cutter bullets seated about 10mm below the case mouth.
Zac


#5

I did provide a link to the original thread, which sksvlad started. I’ll ask the guy I got it from if it was reloaded. Have taken one apart and it was loaded with black powder complete with a cardboard disc between the powder and bullet. Someones old forgotten reloading project for his vintage .32 revolver…
Soren

eta: Headstamp is 38 over 74 btw.


#6

I’m not sure about the length, but some people cut down the cases so that they can regular bullets without using the gas seal feature. The cases must be shorter so that the cylinder will turn. If the overall length (with bullet) is the same as the regular gas seal cartridges I’d bet it was that.


#7

Hendere, there are the short wadcutter cases with 26mm case length which were for sporting auto-pistols (John do you hear me?). I would wonder if somebody would undergo the effort to shorten the 39mm cases - unless he has no other options.

I also wonder if these here coule be converts for the 8mm Nagant revolver as it was used by Norway, Sweden and Switzerland. Correct me if I am wrong but I have no comparison on hand to look up the dimensions.


#8

EOD - what are you trying to do, drive me crazy? Yeah, I know, in my case that isn’t a “drive,” but rather only a short walk. Auto pistol for the 7.62 Nagant “short.” Are you kidding me? If not, details please! I had a partial box of those from a Phoenix international shooting match that one of the Russian shooters either left on a bench or actually gave to a friend of mine, who gave it to me. I assumed they were shooting a match grade of the Nagant Revolver.
I don’t have the box, or even one of the cartridges anymore! :-( (if those were for a self-loading pistol!)

Was the short one ONLY for an auto pistol? If it actually was for a revolver and just adapted to an auto pistol, I am safe. We have .38 Special caliber pistols here, in the Model 52 S&W, the Colt Gold Cup, and some custom pistols built on .45 M1911 type frames. I shot one of the latter for years. It was made from a .38 AMU kit altered for the rimmed cartridge, and fitted to a commercial frame. It had an extended, full length slide with its six inch (rather than the normal five inch) barrel, with the slide made from the original AMU slide with the cut off front of a second slide welded and mated to the front. So well done, you couldn’t even find the seam. Full-length Bomar rib, and somewhat heavy. I finally gave up on it because I was much more consistent with my .45, but it was a real tack driver if the weight didn’t tire you out and make you careless. At any rate, since the cartridge was not an “auto pistol” case type, I never collected .38 Special as an auto pistol round. I certainly do, though, include the .38 AMU rimless version in my collection.


#9

John, I would never intent to push you that short step you mentioned - I guess to some point we are all in the same situation.

I never cared much for any civilian weapons (and not that I do much for military ones) but I have to mention here that there are Russian boxes for the 26mm case which say “7.62mm sporting pistol cartridges”.
While all boxes with the 39mm cases and wad cutter loads say “7.62mm sporting revolver cartridges”.

So to be complete we need to say that the 26mm case was also used in revolvers with shortened drums (the polite way to excuse you).
Here you can see both variants:
TOZ-36 (top) and TOZ-49 (bottom)
ekimoff.ru/img/tir/toz.jpg

And to maybe make you going that last step ahread - not to crazyness but to enlightenment, the auto pistol MTs-58:
ekimoff.ru/img/tir/mc-58.jpg


#10

A better image of the TOZ-49:
ptn-fobos.com.ua/wp-content/uplo … toz-49.jpg

And a better one of the MTs-58 which seems to be slightly different from the one in the posting above:
popgun.ru/files/g/16/orig/1221760.jpg


#11

Well, another answer went “poof!” I’ll try again.

EOD - I knew about the TOZ Revolvers but forgot all about them. Probably it was one of these types, or both types, used at Phoenix rather than a NAGANT type. I knew nothing and have never seen a picture of that self-loading pistol.
Can you confirm it is for the short-case, wadcutter loading of the 7.62 Nagant rimmed revolver cartridge?


#12

John, yes, all I found in the Russian web referred to the MTs-58 as being in 7.62x26R - that same shortened case with a wadcutter load.
As said; after all the official designation on the boxes is “pistol cartridge”.


#13

So EOD are you thinking the cartridges pictured by mausernut in the first post are Russian 7.62x38mmR Nagant cases cut down to make 8mm Nagant revolver cartridges?

Brian


#14

Brian, if the Russian case (cut or not) would be suitable for making an 8mm Nagant out of it I would not be surprised (I have never seen any new 8mm Nagant cases btw - not that this matters but maybe a hint for a shortage of brass then).
As said maybe somebody here in the forum can compare the case head measurements of the Russian case and the 8mm Nagant and let us know then.