Old tesching ctges (bis)

I would like an identification of these ctges

All of these ctges have a raised base

From left to right :

  1. Hstp F.V. Dreyse Sommerda (raised)
    Rim diam : 14.75
    base diam : 13.10
    neck diam 11.80
    cl : 33.25
    bull diam 11.50
    What is this one ???

  2. Hstp Gerb Simon Schmalkalden (raised)
    Rim diam : 14.90
    base diam : 13.05
    neck diam 10.30
    cl : 46.60
    bull diam 9.50
    What is this one ???

  3. Hstp: “Arrow” ST “Arrow” 1889 (raised)
    Rim diam : 14.80
    base diam : 13.00
    neck diam 10.60
    cl : 46.85
    bull diam 10.15
    What is this one ???

  4. Hstp: H. Utendoerffer Nurnberg (raised)
    Rim diam : 14.70
    base diam : 13.60
    neck diam 11.55
    cl : 46.85
    bull diam 10.85
    What is this one ???


#1 is a 11.25x33R MB Target (MB5)

#2 is one of the about seven 9.5x47R MB cartridges which are really hard to identify. This one with the “GERB SIMON SCHMALKALDEN” hs was identified by me as most likely being the 9.5x47R MB Utendoerffer b/a (MB77) as the hs implies it is newer than most of these types.

#3 is a 10x47R Stahl MB Target (MB81)

#4 is one of the several 10.5-10.9mm MS Target cartridges which are also very hard to identify. It would need more investigation (shoulder/neck dimensions etc) but it is likely to be either the:
11.65x47R MS (MS29)
11.7x47R (MS30)
11.75x47R (MS31)
All of which are known with the H. UTENDOERFFER NUERNBERG hs and are extremely similar.

Thanks !
Give me time to analyze all that.
I’ll come back

Would not that headstamp read GEBR SIMON SCHMALKALDEN? Jack

Correct Jack -well spotted ! Where it represents “Gebrüder Simon” meaning “Simon Bothers” who evidently operated before 1935.