OPFOR ammunition in 23x152B and 57x348SR


#1

Is there any information on non US ammunition used in US OPFOR exercises?

In particular on 23x152B ZU-23 (series) and 57x348SR S-60 (series). I mean in particular the time before the fall of the USSR.

There exist 23x152B “break up” cartridges made by NWM (Holland) which are loaded into Soviet cases (unloaded ones from what ever stocks available during the cold war).
There were also tests for 57x348SR (and as I been told for 57x480R ZIS-2 series ammo). These two 57mm used the same projectile of which only a hand full were made and never loaded with iron dust itself. Means they were never produced as cartridges and sowith never fired or even fielded.
All these were meant for US OPFOR exercises but I never managed to find out if they (well the 23x152B) ever made it into US stocks or if all this was just development which went nowhere.

Any info would be highly appreciated (even disprove of the whole thing above). Also on any other ammunition they may use/have used in the OPFOR role (unless it was regular US ammo).


#2

Nobody?

Or are those knowing at SLICS?


#3

Hi EOD
may I ask what OPFOR means?
Thanks


#4

Pete - I am pretty sure OPFOR means “Opposing Force.” The US Military has a group, for simulated battle, that dresses in a quasi-East European uniforms and uses foreign weapons and verhicles, and acts as the enemy at War Games. I don’t know how many facilities they are at, but I know they had a group down at that Desert Warfare Training Area in Southeast California (or is it actually across the border in Arizona?). I can’t believe that I can’t remember the name of the post it is on! They have Russian tanks, trucks, etc. I don’t know if they exist currently or not. Am long past my Army Service, and my general interest in U.S. Military training techniques, etc.


#5

From what I know of OPFOR, they did not use the larger caliber Soviet type weapons such as the 23 and 57mm. They may have had the weapons, but not actually fired them…

AKMS


#6

John, thank you for the comprehensive explanation.

AKMS, to my knowledge the OPFOR units still do exist today.

Since the 23mm and 57mm ammo got at least developed (23mm made and loaded) there must have been a plan on using them unless my info is totally wrong.

Nobody out there to enlighten us?


#7

Thanks for the enlightenment. The AZ base is perhaps Fort Huachuca ? Which is south of Tuscon.


#8

Pete - the minute I read “Fort Huachuca,” which when I was in the army was primarily a signal corp activity, I remember the name of the post where they do desert armored warfare training. It is in Southern California, out past Bakersfield, and is Fort Irwin. During WWII it was Camp Irwin, I believe. Going to a SHOT show in Las Vegas once, traffic in the right lane really slowed down. I thought it was the Semi tractor and Trailer in front of the car in front of me, but when I pulled into the center lane to pass it, I found in front of that truck was a big flatbed truck with an unmarked T-34 Russian tank (Could have been made in another BLOC country I guess, but it was unmistakenly a T-34) in very nice shape, with shiney steel treads indicating it probably was up and running, and had been driven recently. I am sure, since it was going East, and short of Bakersfield, that it was going to Fort Irwin. Going the other way, I would have thought it was on the way to a big collection of Armored vehicles that in in the Santa Cruz area of California. In fact, the owner of the collection died with anbout a year ago.

Thanks, though for the thought, because it was that that jarred my memory. Hope to see you in Reno in June, and hope you had a great SLICS, despite the “adventure” of the Tornado.