P25 7,92x57


#1

Can anyone tell me the reason why the headstamp would have been scored out, could it be the batch did not pass quality control? The bullet weight is 198gr many thanks …paul.


#2

The cartridge case has been re-annealed. Dutch will explain. JH


#3

Before 1926 the sS bullets gave problems when used in a Machine gun because
the case had no grip on the bullet and therefore the bullets became loose while firing.
Four radial lines appeared in the headstamp during 1926 to
indicate that the bullet was provided with a cannelure so that the bullet
had a better grip in the case so that these cartridges could be used in a machine gun without
any problems. From 1928 they made only bullets with cannelure and the radial lines where no longer indicated
in the headstamp.


#4

Thank you to both of you…regards…paul.


#5

The cases of these cartridges were not loaded in the ammunition plant but were on stock first. Several, I am sorry don’t know the English term for them, “Wehrkreisen” had own “Munitionsanstalten”. The stored components were there for, in a case of war having loading facilities all over Germany in a short time.
At the time these cases were on stock a new development of making cases was introduced.
The case mouth was heated to prevent the cracking of it.
The older cases on stock were reworked later and became this marking. On the box of this time aria there was a print “Nachgeglüht” on the box.
The showed box sS loaded in 1930 by Wehrkreis “I” was loaded with these stock components, powder from 1924, cases 1926, bullet 1927 and primer from 1924.

The same cases exist with and without the radial lines.
As you can see the left case loaded in 1926 without these lines has still a visible marking of a MG belt on the case.

Rgds
Dutch


#6

It is correct, is it not, that the problem addressed was necks that were so soft they couldn’t properly grip the bullet rather than bullets lacking crimping cannelures? The sS bullet had a crimping cannelure from its introduction late in WWI as I understand it. Jack


#7

every round can tell a story, if we know where to look! So the lines on my case are just misplaced. yet again thanks to everyone…paul.


#8

If by misplaced, you mean because the lines are struck over some of the entries that were already on the case, that is not a concern. While the round that Dutch pictured has them struck almost perfectly in between entries, I suspect that was simply coinicidental. I had a number of these “added marking” headstamps, mostly originally with Polte headstamps as he shows, and the four segment lines can appear anywhere on the head in relation to the original markings.


#9

So now I have had time to think about this, empty cases were put into storage along with powder and bullets. Then assembled when the need for them arose. Then it would be possible to find any case with the 4 radial lines on, as for the bullet then they would all be s.S.? How common is it to find this type of case, and would it not have been easier to just make the complete round and store that?..paul


#10

Paul,
the presence of an sS bullet is identified by the green primer annulus.
The four radial lines identify the cases as re-heat treated (nachgeglüht), as shown by Dutch.
At the time, S as well as sS cartridges were manufactured (sS became the standard round in 1930).

Germany had exactly one authorised (by the Allies) military SAA factory at the time: Polte. P25 (Kopp, Treuenbrietzen) and several others were being set up in utmost secrecy. These were very small plants, equipped step by step. So it is quite possible that one factory received cases or bullets from another secret plant, as long it could not make them in the required quantities. This continued even into WW2. As has been said multiple times on this forum: P25 only identifies who made the case.

P.S. “Wehrkreis” as mentioned by Dutch is military district. Each district corresponded to one infantry division as authorized by the Versailles Treaty.

P.P.S Propellant was indeed manufactured and put in stock. At one time early in the war German authorities actually believed they had so much rifle propellant in stock that it would last until final victory.