PALMA box - Question for the Remington experts


#1

I have this 1924 Palma-Olympic box in caliber 30-06 in my collection

and this is the label on the back side of the box.

I have a second one, which looks identical at first sight but after a closer look, I discovered two variances.

  1. the headstamps of the cartridges on the boxes are different.

Box 1

Box 2

and also the text for the bullet weight on the side of the box varies
Box 1 on the left, box 2 on the right

Lot numbers on the boxes are:
Box 1 = DH 024
Box 2 = Y 03 N

Unfortunately both boxes are empty.
Can anybody tell me the difference between the boxes?
Was one used for match ammo and the other for after-sales on the normal market
or is the it just a different production period ?
Can anybody put a date to the boxes based on the lot numbers ?

Thanks
René


#2

OK, overwhelming response.

Let’s try this one:
All Remington 30-06 cartridges I have, that have a U with underscore on the primer
have as headstamp: REM-UMC over 1906
I don’t have a headstamp as shown on box no1, REM-UMC over .30 1906
Does anybody know of a cartridge with that headstamp ?

thx
René


#3

Rene

Welcome to my world. Sometimes it’s very discouraging to collect a specialty that few others are interested in. As you know, my interest is Match cartridges and the pre-NATO Light Rifle. I do get occasional reponses on the LR, but seldom/never on the Match stuff. So, I just kind of struggle along all on my own.

Anyway, for what it’s worth, I have never seen a cartridge with the headstamp REM-UMC over 30 1906. All of the International Match and Palma Match cartridges I have seen are headstamped REM-UMC over 1906. My list of REM-UMC headstamps includes one over G 1906 but shows it at a rarity 5, which means very rare.

Putting aside the Match cartridges, you would think that there are Remington collectors on the Forum who would know about the various headstamps. But, it doesn’t appear to be so.

Good Luck

Ray


#4

Rene,
Ray is correct noting the lack of a known headstamp as seen on your Box 1.
Look in IAA issue #387 for the Fraser listing of REM-UMC headstamps starting on page 22

To me this illustrates the danger of using an artists artwork as proof of a headstamp. This same danger exists in using catalog artwork or lists for a reference.

Lets consider it “artistic interpretation”, or perhaps it is a Friday & lets just get the “G” out of here?


#5

Ray, I agree about a collecting specialty not shared by others, but I DO read all of your posts !!

Rene…we know your box is from 1924, but what we do not know is when the cartridge art dates from. It may be that the artist was “copying” the REM-UMC 30-1903 art, and changing the last 3 to a 6, of course. The REM-UMC 30-1903 headstamp appeared about 1912, along with the style of box labeling you show.

Randy


#6

Hi Gents

thanks a lot for your input.
W’ll put this one in the artist’s mistake drawer.
I’ll review the list in the IAA journal with my headstamps, but I am sure I don’t have the G 1906 one.
So the box with the wrong H/S is the most likely older one.
I guess they discovered it and made a new label. Would still be interesting to know when that was.
But maybe there is sombody out there who can put a date to the lot-numbers

Thx again
René


#7

Rene

I believe that 1920 was the first year that Rem-Umc made Palma/Olympic ammunition with the 180 grain flat base bullet.

Ray


#8

Ray–Your probably correct on the 1920 date. It is not listed in the 1918-1919 catalog, but is listed in the 1923 catalog. Unfortunately I do not have the 1920-1922 catalogs.


#9

Remington ammunition was selected for following competitions

1920 Int. Matches H/S REM-UMC 1906
1921 Int & Palma Matches H/S REM-UMC 1906
1923 Int. Matches H/S REM-UMC 30-IM-06
1924 Int & Palma Matches H/S REM-UMC 1906
1924 Olympic Matches H/S REM-UMC 30-200-06

attached is a quick scan of the headstamps

cheers
René


#10

Rene

The REM-UMC 30-IM-06 is a hard one to find.

Ray