Patrone 318 Questions


#1

I have 3 different Patrone 318 rounds. I have the standard S.m.K.H.Rs.L’Spur; (TEAR GAS/TRACER WITH TUNGSTEN CORE) with a black bullet tip. I also have a TREIBPATRONE 318 FUR GEWEHRGRANATE (HELLES HOLZGESCHOSS) with a short natural wood bullet. My third round is, I think, a PATRONE Ob.

1–What does “HELLES HOLZGESCHOSS” mean?

2–What does “Ob” mean? Does it stand for “obungsgeschoss”? And if so, what load is it? Mine has no bullet tip color and the bullet looks a lot like an s.S bullet. Primer seal is red.

3–All three have headstamps with P or aux WAa year ## (lower case letter). I assume the 2 numbers (##) are the lot number, but what does the lower case letter designate. I have the following headstamps:
P Waa700 40 14d
aux Waa109 41 53d
aux Waa364 42 14f


#2

HELLES HOLZGESCHOSS = white (not colored) wooden bullet.

“Ob” is wrong must be; “Üb” (Übungsgeschoss) practice bullet.

The character, is the code from the “Rate” (part of a lot)

Rgds
Dutch


#3

Dutch–My first thought was the same as yours that it should be “Üb” (Übungsgeschoss) practice bullet.

The Ob. came from “Die Militarpatronen Kaliber 7,9mm” by Brandt, Hamann and Dr. Windisch. I assume you most likely have this book. Look at page 254, items 3 & 4. At first, because the type is slightly smeared in my copy, it seemed to read Ob. However, when I used a 10x magnifier, I see that it actually is a “U” with the umlaut dots above it. Thanks.

Assuming you have the above book, I need translation of some of the other Patrone 318 load types. I’ll refer to them by the numbers used in the book.

#2–“mit Entlastungsrillen”? Also, does this have the black tip as on #1 or a different color tip?

#5–“KupferfÜrungsband”?

#6–the bullet does not look to be white (HELLES HOLZGESCHOSS). Looks more likely red or purple. Any comment?

#7–“dunkles Holzgeschoss”?

#10–“einteilig mit Langsrillen”?

#12–“Messing-verchromt”?

Can you explain more about the “Rate” as part of the lot number?

Thanks for the help.


#4

#2 - Case with release grooves, bullet has black tip.
#5 - Steel bullet with copper rotating band.
#6 - I think the wooden bullet would be purple in color.
#7 - Dark wooden bullet.
#10 - Cartridge made of one piece with grooves.
#12 - Chromed Brass case

451kr.


#5

All the Patrone .318 examples are for the PzB 39 and38 anti-tank rifles; EXCEPT the “White wood bullet” Triebpatrone is the Launching cartridge for the Conversions of the PzB38 & 39 into the Granatbuchse 41 ( grenade Gun 1941, a conversion of the long barrelled rifles to a simple grenade launching tube for special “Shaped charge” AT grenades ( the fore-runner of the later “Panzerschrek” RPG.)

Regards, Doc AV
AV Ballistics.


#6

Doc, the grenades were not special, the regular rifle grenades have been used there.
Also there is no connection to the 88mm Raketenpanzerbüchsgranate 4322 which is a complete rocket. The only thing they have in common is the shaped charge effect which was used in many other ordnance items as well.


#7

451kr–Thank you or the translations.

DocAV & EOD–Any chance of getting pictures or links to other information on the various weapons that these cartridges were used in?


#8

Some picture of the Pzb39 with launcher.



451kr.


#9

Ron, it is the Panzerbüchse 38, 39, 40 (Krieghoff), Panzerbüchse M SS 41 and machine gun EW 141. Probably I missed 1 or 2.

Panzerbüchse 38
img511.imageshack.us/img511/5853 … nk7la9.jpg

Panzerbüchse 39
lonesentry.com/ordnance/wp-c … hse-39.jpg

Granatbüchse 39
lonesentry.com/ordnance/wp-c … hse-39.jpg

M SS 41
lonesentry.com/ordnance/wp-c … -rifle.jpg

Krieghoff Panzerbüchse 40
i26.tinypic.com/20kvv3n.jpg

EW 141 (in 2 versions)
forum.axishistory.com/download/f … 1f2ac9e62e

img46.imageshack.us/img46/93/dibujozm5.jpg