Permit for UPS?


#1

I usually discount the “new gun/ammo shipping laws!!!” panic postings on-line, but I recently read one that gave me pause. The poster said that as of December 2013, there would be a regulation change for shipping small quantities of ammunition via UPS and Fedex that would indirectly require some form of license.
Is this more hog-wash, or is there something in the horizon to prepare for?


#2

I wrote to my regional UPS director…let’s see


#3

Pepper’s idea is a good one; get the new rules from the company that’s doing the shipping, and get them in writing. Federal regulations are the minimum requirements, and UPS can and does add additional requirements. I shipped 2,500 rounds of small arms ammo yesterday via UPS (ground service only) and the company was happy to have my business, again.

This thread will generate a ton of responses, I’m sure. After Googling several topics - “December 2013 ammunition shipping regulations” is a good place to start - what seems to be clear is that some new regulations to better “harmonize” U.S. ammo shipping with the United Nations have already been finalized, but all is not clear. We are currently in a transition period to the new requirements that will end 31 December 2013. Until then, we can still ship cartridges as we have in the past, using the old ORM-D Small Arms Cartridges sticker. The new diamond-shaped sticker will be mandatory as of 1 January 2014.

Apparently, new license requirements, if any, are not clear and are being “worked on” for an exception for “small quanties.” Looks like we have 15 months to ship as before. I’ll be very interested to see the response to Pepper’s letter, but it wouldn’t surprise me if a UPS regional director didn’t have the final word now.


#4

Yes, this does appear to be more than the usual “The Sky Is Falling” panic. The shift to some kind of UN coordination has left a gray-area that might be of concern to us small quantity shooters and collectors. I haven’t had much luck in the past getting any true and definitive info from lower-level UPS managers, I hope Pepper will get a better response.


#5

When I shipped a very small quantity of ammo to my own house in NY from Miami, the UPS lady told me that I could not have my own name as both sender and addressee, which surpised me (no direct connection with this topic).


#6

Delete


#7

I was idly watching a program on (our ) channel 38 which often has some good gun stuff on it. But I digress, this day it was about the mail service in New Zealand. It showed a man randomly X-raying routine mail packages in a mail hub.

Ok you say thats in NZ not here but its a small world. This man was just fishing. Obviously for the sake of the program he found a few things but the technology is there and how long will it be before every package gets x-rayed and image recognition software takes over?

A few years ago we would have thought it improbable that every suitcase would get x-rayed at the airport. Now its just day to day routine. These days you have to get your shoes X-rayed to visit the Statue of Liberty And your belt and your wallet etc

I would suggest perhaps rather uncharitably that a lot of the stuff we have been sending (although legal) has simply not attracted adverse attention. If it does the position will become untenable, even if remains legal, because of the varied and inappropriate reactions of minor officialdom.
In Britain the British Postal service has not carried guns or (live) ammo for some years. Now the word gun related has appeared, from nowhere, with no definition or clarification. Where does that start and end? Gun mags? I have several that I receive. Scopes? I buy dozens from China, they arrive by post. Fired cases? I sell thousands although they are too heavy for the mail service. DVDs? I sell hundreds intermittantly by mail order when I can get them. (etc)

Slowly the rope tightens


#8

Quite often the folks working for the shipping companies (UPS, FEDEX, Post Office) are badly misinformed about what the rules are.
Unless they can show you something in writing, like their “tariff” or some specific company “regulations” then they probably know less than you do about the subject. They may have heard some other misinformed person mention something similar a long time ago and will try to answer based on that, but will get very huffy if challenged.

Several thoughts (at the shipper level):
a. Like the lawyers say, never ask a question you do not know the answer to.
b. It is sometimes easier to get forgiveness than permission.
c. Never miss an opportunity to be silent.
d. “Mommy, can I go out to play?”
“No!”
“Daddy, can I go out to play?”
“Ummm, okay.”


#9

[quote=“VinceGreen”] It showed a man randomly X-raying routine mail packages in a mail hub.

[/quote]

Same is done in Germany and I assume much more organized than “just random”. I assume this to happen in many other countries as well. Get used to it, our freedom is long gone together with our rights and democracy if we ever had any (Germany never did).


#10

post weekend e-mail from my UPS Enterprise Accounts Sales Manager

“Hey, Let me check, nothing that has come across my desk lately.”

may be more to come as he checks


#11

[quote=“EOD”][quote=“VinceGreen”] It showed a man randomly X-raying routine mail packages in a mail hub.

[/quote]

Same is done in Germany and I assume much more organized than “just random”. I assume this to happen in many other countries as well. Get used to it, our freedom is long gone together with our rights and democracy if we ever had any (Germany never did).[/quote]
It will only get worse as well. I am sure that the “People’s Republic of Europe” is coming eventually.


#12

Germany had it all the time, just in 1945 the leaders switched.


#13

Latest e-mail from my companies UPS Enterprise Accounts Manager

[i]I have uncovered nothing that will be changing shortly. The only thing that may affect you is the ORM labels will change come January 2013 but you do not need a UPS Dangerous Goods agreement for that.

If you have any links to the info in question…please send them to me for further investigation.[/i]


#14

The effective date of the new ORM-D stickers is an elusive target. I originally heard 1-1-12 and then 1-1-13. I sent an ORM-D package last week and so I put both stickers on the box. The nice lady told me it wasn’t really necessary since the new ones won’t be required until 1-1-14.

Does anybody really know when the old ORM-D stickers will be gone for good???