Persian 8mm Mauser Surplus Ammo


#1

I purchased some of this Iranian Ammo it’s Dated at 1954.

although all the markings are in Farsi I was able to figure out the date using Google translate.

using the Farsi Calender I took the two bottom characters ۳۳ which are 33, refer to the Persian not Arabic dates
it’s 1333 add 620 for Farsi and 580 for Arabic ( birth or death of Muhammad ) 1333 + 620 = 1954
the other 2 characters I am not sure of, the one on the left, but the one on the right is a “2” ۲

I unboxed this stuff and it looked ok, no corrosion but it has an 80% failure to Fire and the remaining 20% is delayed
when fired about 1/2 second. so even though it’s no good for shooting what about collecting?



I got this ammo from http://www.samcoglobal.com/Ammo-8mm.html Samco Global in Miami


#2

You mentioned that you “unboxed” the ammo. In truth, having collected the 7.9 x 57 mm round for 20 years or so (I don’t anymore), it is my impression that the original boxes are a lot scarcer than the cartridges. Hope you didn’t throw them all away if they were the original packets with Farsi markings. There are probably those that could use a sample.


#3

At 9:00 is the letter meem, and at 3:00 is the number 1. M1, get it?


#4

Right I found M “Meem” last night but the character at 3:00 is a ۲ “2” so it says M 2 ??? still don’t understand what that represents.


#5

unfortunately the ammo came in a cardboard box, the original paper wrappings were torn up in with the ammo loose.
I tried to shoot some of this ammo yesterday and It had a 80% Failure to Fire rate and the ones that did fire had a 1/2 to 1 second delay after the trigger was pulled
this is dangerous ammo and I will not use it again, what if I pulled the bolt back after I pulled the trigger and then the powder ignited?

I need to find some better quality 8mm ammo for my Mauser…


#6

You’re right, its a two. Here is a picture of a meem-1.

I reload them so the nickeled primer indicates a reload. oh yeah, its a 30.06 vice 8x57.


#7

This stuff came in hermetically sealed tins, so what caused all of the primers to die and the powder/metal still be good? I have always wondered what killed primers, especially fully sealed with lacquer primers in a sealed tin.


#8

Many chemical compounds decay (break-down) over time. The “cartridges” used in aircraft (jettison pylons, activate fire bottles, fire ejection seats, etc) are essentially all sealed, but all have shelf lives because of this decay over time. The USAF withdraws samples from storage periodically and does lot testing (sample firings) under carefully measured conditions to identify any degradation that may require early condemnation of the items. I think essentially all primers decay over time but at different rates. German WWII 9x19mm ammo is still pretty good and I find few bad primers unless the ammo is corroded when I inert it. French primers from the 1940s and 1950s and some later, are usually inert. Few of the '40 & '50 dated rounds even get a wisp of smoke from the primer.

I believe most militaries lot test ammo over time to ensure it has not decayed.

The WWII 30-06 I have bought seems to work just fine-at least the stuff in sealed cans.

Cheers,
Lew


#9

If you are a shooter/reloader, you can always break it down for the propellant and bullets. I did that on many Turkish 7.92 rounds with spotty ignition. I loaded it in boxer-primed cases, and cut the powder charge by 10%.


#10

IN the initial Posts, There was mention of "Birth and Death of Mohammed…the estimated Birth of Mohammed was 570 CE, and his death was 630-31. The Anno Hegira ( Year of the Voyage) was 621 July approx. ( can be counted as 622, due to the shortness of the Islamic (Lunar) year.)

Iran (Persia) over its History, has used Two “Start dates” for its AH Dating…by the 1930s, it was using 621CE as the start date (as it still does today).

By the way, 584 CE was the estimated Date for the coming of age of the Prophet (age 14,as is traditional in Islamic society), and was used for the Turkish Ordnance Year…also an allowance was made for the shorter 364 days year.

Doc AV


#11

I have the original crates along with the tins, also the packing materials and information sheet. The M2 stands for model 2 I have been told by a local Iranian friend (contractor that built my house years ago) that has contact with an ex Iranian general that lives here in the states. I have all the crates and labels translated. Most of it is military jargon, as my other local Farsi speaking friend could not translate it and she was born in Tehran and left for Paris as a teen college student.

Joe


#12

[quote=“dArtagnan”]You’re right, its a two. Here is a picture of a meem-1.

I reload them so the nickeled primer indicates a reload. oh yeah, its a 30.06 vice 8x57.[/quote]

The M1 in this case is referring to the M1 Garand rifle. This I have confirmed, as it is on the packing slip and more importantly the crates. Funny thing about the packing slip inside the sealed tins within the crates of M1906 M2 ball I obtained, is that the slips indicate M1 Batch ammunition, but on the reverse have an unused form for 7,9 caliber ammunition. Why they did not at least cross it out is unknown. The correct information on the back of the original form for 7,9 ammunition that was used for the M1906 M2 ball, was hand written in Persian blue ink from a fountain pen. The signatures are all in pencil. Go figure. The extra packing slips I gave to Bill Wooden.

Joe


#13

Joe,

interesting things you tell us here, please make it all complete by posting pictures, thank you!

Hans


#14

In Australia, service ammunition is regularly checked for condition. This was done even in desperate times as evidenced by the label on the packet. Such ammo was either sold to rifle clubs or destroyed.


#15

Most countries have followed the “Rule of Fives” from the beginning of use of Smokeless Powders.
Ammunition was Tested every Five Years, and graded accordingly ( 1st 5, Combat Immediate Use; 2nd 5, Combat emergency use, Training use; 3rd 5, Training use only, Combat only in dire circumstances; After 15 years…surplus out or destroy.

Before WWI, it was common for countries to “Re-manufacture” ammo, as in “Recapping” (New primers) or Converting Ball ammo to Blank for training; the huge use of ammo during WW I ( and increased economies of manufacture) eliminated these solutions, as being too Cost intensive.

Depending on country and circumstances of Manufacture, the two failures occur in Powder (Nitric Acid Degradation—German WW II ammo) and Primers (French corrosive and some other Mercuric Primers from before WW II.). Moisture and varying (seasonal) storage temperatures are the great enemies of Long ammo shelf Life.

Regards,
Doc AV


#16

[quote=“Hans”]Joe,

interesting things you tell us here, please make it all complete by posting pictures, thank you!

Hans[/quote]

Oh crap, I knew that was comming. Ok, I will take some pictures. Now the crates I just wrote on the crates with pencil as to what it says in Farsi. I do not know how to do like people do, with posting images with tags saying what is what and all.

joe


#17

Joe,

I’m under the impression we don’t get to see many Iranian crates here. Instructions how to post images you will find un this forum’s home page, just give it a try and please do us that favour, thank you!

Hans


#18

Here are pictures of the 7,9 German cartridge tin to start. All the 1950’s 7,9 tins I have out of sealed crates are the same construction. The seams all seem to be soldered. Two flat pieces of cardboard were on top of the ammo and the separators were in between the five rows of 200 cartridges. The cartridges also had paper laced in between them, but it had disintegrated for the most part.

joe




Identification of 7.92 Headstamps
#19

[quote=“Hans”]Joe,

I’m under the impression we don’t get to see many Iranian crates here. Instructions how to post images you will find un this forum’s home page, just give it a try and please do us that favour, thank you!

Hans[/quote]

Yes, I can post pictures but cannot figure out how people scan an image and then type on the image with letters and arrows pointing to things to point out. I will post some hand written photos.

joe


#20

Ok, here are the labels and translation as I rewrote it clearer.

Edit; The manufacturers packing slip on LEFT came out of sealed 7,9 tin and the manufacturers packing slip on the RIGHT came out of the 30-06 sealed tin. The slips do not make a lot of sense as they are convoluted. All we could figure is that they used an old 133 factory 7,9 list for the 30-06 and tried to repurpose it by rubber stamping “MM 7.62 Caliber” on the back side. Why they did not cross out the front side we do not know, other than expediency.

Joe