Picture of .270" ammunition

Recently I became interested in the .270" ammunition for the EM1 and EM2 rifle.
Does anyone of you have a black tipped API cartridge in his collection? Or a tracer with a white tip?
If possible I would love to have a high resolution photo of these (or other) .270" cartridges.

Thanks in advance
Joost

I have a white-tip tracer but I’m not so good a photographer. If I can get a good pic I’ll post it here.

I dont have any with a tip colour yet I only have this one, I am looking for other .270 rounds if anyone in the UK is selling :-)

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I have just checked through my files and I have a few photos that came from Toney Edwards
270%20Ball 270%20ball%20blue%20tip%20RG%2048%2C%20API%20K48 270%20Tracer%20K48%2C%20RG%2048

hope these help

Richard.

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Wow interesting photoos! Good to know some of the tracer rounds has survived. I am stil interested in other types as wel. Hopefully otters are able to add fotoos in this thread.
Thanks in advance 👍

Do these rounds also carry the designation Compromise???
Sherryl

No, these are the first series of tests; pre-Compromise.

DSCN5096 270%20hs

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It might be worth pointing out that the .270 British round bears no relationship to the .280/30 or 7 mm family. For a start, the case diameter of the .270 is only around 11.2 mm ( like the 7.62 x 39 M1943 and the 7.62 x 45 Czech vz 52) rather than 11.9 mm for the .280/30 (which is the same as the 7.62 x 51 NATO).

The story of the .270 is told in this article, on pages 15-18, while the .280/30 history is on pages 19-22.

Tony
Thanks for the note I am familiar with all of them,however this 270 experimental;
thrugh a bit of curb on me I was not aware that they even messed around with
something before the Compromise
Sherryl

Tony I do think it is a bit confusing to say that the .270 has no relationship to the .280/30 or 7mm family, was it no the first round in the story of the whole 7mm developement. I know it has different case dimentions but so do other 7mm rounds that followed in the trials.

sherryl there was quite a bit of messing around here is the family tree
.270
.280
.280/30
7mm 2nd Optimum
7mm High Velocity
7mm Compromise
7.62mm NATO for comparison

Richard

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Lovely Photo Pete do you have any info on the primer on the ball round “I am presuming it is a Ball round” I have not seen that primer marking before

many thanks
Richard.

I have just had a thought It would be ICI for Kynoch, I just have not seen one before :-)

Thanks peashooter for the info yes I saw this once before but do not remember where it is a while
Sherryl Thanks

My reasons for saying there is no relationship between the .270 and the .280 family are:

  1. Purpose: the .270 directly emerged from the Small Arms Calibre Panel report, which recommended a .27 calibre (or .25 if tungsten was used) cartridge with a flat trajectory out to 600 yards and a maximum effective range of about 800 yards. The .280 was developed as a long-range cartridge able to replace the .303/Vickers combination as well being used in rifles (the US Army was only interested in a cartridge which could match the .30 US round out to 2,000 yards, which the .270 couldn’t deliver).

  2. Ballistics: in accordance with the flat-trajectory medium-range requirement, the .270 ended up with a relatively light bullet of 100 grains fired at a respectable 2,750 fps. In contrast, to achieve the long range requirement the .280 settled on a 140 grain bullet, initially fired at only 2,415 fps.

  3. Case dimensions: The disappointing trajectory of the .280 meant that various longer cases were developed to push up the MV, but these were relatively minor changes in terms of case design (there was also a small adjustment to the rim shape made early on, to match the US .30). The smaller case diameter of the .270 is a much more fundamental difference.

So to sum up, the .270 was the outcome of careful deliberation as a result of WW2 battle experience, while the .280 seems to have been conceived quite separately, to meet the US requirement for longer range. The .270 and .280 cartridge projects were actually run in parallel for a brief period, before the .280 was chosen.

Nice photo, by the way!

Richard, re the ‘ICI’ marking on the primer, I read (somewhere!) in the last couple of weeks that this was used by Kynoch initially to indicate a non-mercuric cap. I’ll try to re-trace my steps and work out where I read it! Below is an image of a similar marking (slightly different layout) on an RUC issue 9mmx19 Mk.2z from 1955, Pete.

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Richard,
Did you happen to get a headstamp photo, of your nice “7mm family” picture?
Thanks,
Dan

No sorry Dan, I still have a lot of files and info to go through from Tony’s personal files I inherited “Not the reference collection” . Most of Tony’s photos are front views of cases and groups not many actual headstamp photos. I have sorted a lot but still plenty to go through, I have a nice list of most if not all the known loadings and headstamps for the 280, 280/30 and the various 7mm rounds.

Rich

Thanks Richard, yes it is a ball loading.
The ICI logo on primers is relatively common in some military as Pete notes. Also used in sporting ammunition as here on a Kynoch, .401 Winchester Self Loading & a .22 HornetKynoch%2022%20hornet .
DSCN5099

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Many thanks Tony, I see why now. I have always had them as a progression but as you point out they are from quite different points of development. As for thew photo I was very lucky to inherit a lot of Tony Edwards electronic files along with all the reference collection, there are some really great photos of groupings and many, many different rounds.

cheers
Richard.

Attn PetedeCoux
Thank you very much for your pictures! - good to know that does exist brass case made by RG and Kynoch and orange ALU case made by RG.

Attn peashooter
…looking to your ALU RG case it seems to be a nice reload from fired case which were found on the factory shooting range (I have met also one recently for sale). Your cartridge neck bears the visible signs of dirty chamber and missing the 1.2mm long taper crimp which is standard on .270 and well as 280/30 with ALU cases (280 I have in my collection). I might be wrong but the “virgin” factory loaded ALU case is shown on Petede’s picture only.