Does anyone have a picture or information on this cartridge? It was made by Pindad in two different loadings: rubber ball and blank.
Very interesting, Fede, I’d not heard about that one. I presume it is based on their usual straight 7.62x45 case necked down?
Tony, I guess it could be that or maybe a necked up 5.56x45 for riot purposes only. It also surprised me that they list a “9X23 mm Largo” in ball loading only.
Thanks for that - I didn’t know anyone still made it.
Fede - where did you find that about Pindad making 9 x 23 mm? I just looked at their website and under 9 mm, they show only 9 mm Parabellum, 9 mm Makarov, 9 mm Browning Short (.380 Auto) and 9 x 21 mm (I assume the Italian version, not the Russian).
Could you post a “click on” website address that shows the 9 x 23 mm in their line. Very important to me, as I keep my own copy of my 9 x 23 book up to date in the advent that it is ever plausible to make a “2nd Edition.”
John, it is not listed in their website but in a document written in Indonesian that I had probably downloaded in 2010. As you can see, they are making more calibers than those listed in their current catalog. Note that the “MU-25-TJ” assigned to the 9x23 is the latest known Pindad designation for small arms ammunition.
Air Mata = Tear gas
Akurasi Tinggi = High precision (Match)
Bola Karet = Rubber ball
Hampa = Blank
Karet = Rubber (FMJ profile)
Nyala = Tracer
Panser bakar = Armor piercing incendiary
Panser bakar nyala = Armor piercing incendiary tracer
Panser nyala = Armor piercing tracer
Tajam = Ball (FMJ)
Ujung Lunak = Soft point
Warna = Paint
John, I forgot to add that the Indonesian 9x21 round is a regular 9x21 IMI but it was made for Pindad made licensed copies of the Beretta M12 smg designated PM1-A1.
Fede - do you mena the 9 x 21 ammo they advertise is actually made by IMI? When I said “Italian version” It would include the IMI production, since they made the cartridge for the Italian designer. It was supposed to be a straight case, mandated by the Italian Government who refused the original design which had the same taper as a 9 mm Para, basically. IMI looked at the round and felt they could make it easier, using much 9 x 19 mm equipment, if it was tapered, so they made it that way, and since it was now a “factory cartridge,” not a wildcat, the Italian Govt. approved it. Weird!
So, to me, the 9 x 21 mm is an Italian-origin cartridge, regardless of who makes it (I again, am not including the Russian version).
John, I mean that the 9 x 21 mm produced by Pindad is the same as the Italian approved 9 x 21 mm named 9 x 21 IMI. I have another Pindad document in which they actually list both the FMJ and SP versions as “9 x 21 mm IMI”.