(PL) PACKAGING AND MARKING OF PACKAGING POLISH SMALL ARMS AMMUNITION Vol. II


#1

Vacation :)

and I try started with next project

PACKAGING AND MARKING OF PACKAGING
POLISH SMALL ARMS AMMUNITION
Vol. II
1939-1945
under german occupation

9x19
7,92x33
7,92x57
7,92x107 PzB 35 ( p )

Polish re-labeled ammunition
Ammunition from Polish components
Ammunition German production - occupation


#2

obraz


#3

Nice box!


#4

PJB, I understand you are at the beginning of the project.
This might be just in time to delete the word “Mauser” in any association with the German-origin caliber that was called 7.9 mm and 7.92 mm in Poland. Mauser was not involved in its development, which was done in state arsenals.
Mauser’s cartridge project around 1888 was the 7,65 mm Belgian which you correctly associate with Mauser in your text.


#5

Yes, this is begining work.


#6

Does “Vol.II” refer to an upcoming book? If yes, then there is Vol.I already. Is it printed? Unfortunately I do not see plenty of old Polish ammo at gun shows. And packaged Polish ammo at all…


#7

https://sites.google.com/site/polishammohistory2/home/znakowanie-i-pakowanie-polskiej-amunicji-strzeleckiej-1918-2003


#8

Thanks. I can read Polish but I have to read aloud so it “sounds” the same as Russian and then I understand it. This is a very difficult process for a long text. Is there an English translation of the above links?


#9

No english version for this book. Maybe in future correct Vol.I, translated first book is to very hard for me.


#10

obraz

obraz

obraz


#11

obraz

fot.: http://www.flak2cm.com


#12

Let see other caliber…

Thats is all what I find about 7,92x33 in www

obraz


#13

“pae” -

we know about code “pae” on the 7,92x57


(municion.org)

Grzegorz Franczyk in book write thats is probably code what was replaced? code “kam” in Werk Skarżysko or that new code for Hasag Skarżysko

pae%20franczyk

But i found next trace, about code “pae” that is probably additionial production bullets for “nbe”.

pae%20etykieta1


#14

geschoss%20318


#15

The passage below about “pae” is in Polish. I am including an English translation (below the Polish text).
pae%20franczyk
The meaning of code “pae”.
You may come across a code “pae” amongst WWII 7.92x57 German Mauser rounds. According to some European collectors, this code was asigned to a HASAG factory by the name Skarzysko in 1944. With available samples we can conclude that only one lot of ammo labelled like that has been produced.


#16

I have a different theory about “pae”
In July 1944, the “kam” plant in Skarżysko was evacuated to Częstochowa.
Probably the machines went to the branch of Hasag Wartnenwerk or another plant in Częstochowa, perhaps “Częstochowianka”
In the new place, the plants received a new “pae” production code.
After the production of the first batch, it was decided to stop the production of ammunition under this code, leaving only the production of missiles for the needs of “nbe”.
The “nbe” and “pae” plants may have been merged into one finally in that case.

Na temat “pae” mam inną teorię
W lipcu 1944 roku zakłady „kam” w Skarżysku zostały ewakuowane do Częstochowy.
Prawdopodobnie maszyny trafiły do oddziału Hasagu Wartnenwerk lub innego zakładu na terenie Częstochowy być może „Częstochowianka”
W nowym miejscu zakłady otrzymały nowy kod produkcyjny “pae”.
Po wyprodukowaniu pierwszej partii podjęto decyzję o zaprzestaniu produkcji amunicji pod tym kodem, zostawiając tylko produkcję pocisków na potrzeby “nbe”.
Zakłady “nbe” i “pae” być może scalono w jeden w takim razie ostatecznie.


#17

You wrote;
The “nbe” and “pae” plants may have been merged into one finally in that case.

I think we agree that in the beginning “pae” and “nbe” were two different facilities.

I know that the “pae” round had an “nbe” bullet. Later the other way around.
It is interesting that “nbe” used bullets from with the code “pae” and shipped there own bullets to “wg” Hugo Schneider A.G., Plant Altenburg

This is the reason I think there were two plants.

WG_45_01_SME


#18

I must be fair.
Until this week I was one of the guys who though that “pae” was the new code for “kam”.

Now I compared different box labels from all three factories.
Perhaps one of you sees more than I do.
My opinion is, there were four types of linotype characters used by these factories.

I think @PJB has an argument.
The highest lot I know from “kam” looks different as the “pae” box label.
At the same time “nbe” used instead a plus a kind of cross.
It changed in 1945 to a “+” the linotype looks different.

Now to the cases.
Until, as far I know, lot 13 “nbe” used a kind of gray lacquered cases.
In lot 14 it changed to green. The gray lacquerer I do not noticed by any “kam” case.
The “S” from St+ from “nbe” and “pae” are different. (Gray cartridges on the left).
At the moment I changed the factory identification in my list to unknown.

Any information is welcome.

Dutch

Polish