Please Id this one USC CO 18 New Guy Again


#1

Head stamp is marked USC CO with two stars and a 18 between them


#2

Probably a .30-06 rifle/MG round, U.S. Cartridge Company, made in 1918.


#3

Thanks Jonny
The round has a thin rim with writting on it , then steps down to a recess inside the recess is primer , then there are what looks like three punch marks on the tiny rim were the primer is, Never seen one, I have to get a photo in day light my new camera stinks( actually I have not read the directions yet)


#4

The unusual primer crimping found in this cartridge was employed because it was intended for use in aircraft MGs, where malfunctions produced by blown primers are difficult to clear. Regular American M1906 ammunition produced during WW.I does not employ this style of crimping. Jack


#5

Thanks Jack, pretty cool to learn this stuff, I might be hooked now


#6

That is a fairly common Cal .30, Model 1906 cartridge. The two stars indicate it was made using the Hooker extruding process. Cartridges of the same type made by the conventional extrusion process do not have the stars.

Later, in the early 1940s, Remington was contracted by Great Britian to manufacture aircraft ammunition, and they used the same ring crimp. When Remington started manufacturing for the US WW II effort they continued to use the crimp so you can find it on many of Remington’s early WW II cartridges.

Ray


#7

Ray could you explain the Hooker extruding process and how it was different? Thanks vic


#8

Another Definition of Cold Extrusion
Cold extrusion is also defined as a compressive forming process (push-through), where the starting material is billet / slug and the process is carried out at the room temperature. During the cold extrusion process, deformation heating of the deforming material takes place at several hundred degrees. Deformation heating is the process of conversion of deformation work to heat. In general, a punch is used for applying pressure to the enclosed billet in the stationary die. This pressure can applied partially or completely, as per the requirements. On the basis of punch, die design along with the resulting material flow, we can classify cold extrusion into three major processes:
• Forward Extrusion
• Backward Extrusion
• Lateral Extrusion.

Forward Extrusion: In this process, the material flows in the direction of the punch displacement. Also, the rod / tube diameter is reduced by forcing it in a die, through an orifice. A variation of this process is known as Hooker Extrusion. In this process, a billet (tubular) is forced by way of a forward extrusion die. This force is applied with a punch and a mandrel that act as a pusher and reduces the outer diameter along with elongating the tubular portion, respectively.


#9

Thank you for all the info

Now here is other part ,intrested in

What is the 18 marked on head stamp?

What Aircraft MG was this used in?

And is this WW1 Or WW2?

I’m getting into restortaing old machinery to use, kinda of a anti china thing,any how, The history on the process in making these gun shells is very cool.Thanks Steve for the info… Seeing I’m new,I will join your group and help support the site. I’ve checked alot of sites out and I find I’m very impressed with the knowledge on here.


#10

Morgans- Welcome!

18 is the date of manufacture (1918).
Severl machine guns were used in U.S. aircraft in WW1, but I think the Lewis gun was one of the most common.


#11

I have a 1918 and 1919 version in my collection.


#12

At that time, the Lewis would have been common in .30 caliber for air service. The US had very few MGs in inventory upon its entry into the war in 1917, most of which were obsolete, so US forces didn’t have many US-made MGs available to them during WWI for either air or ground service. Therefore, they had rely largely upon French MGs (and also French artillery and aircraft). MG production was started in the US, but the war ended before very many MGs made it across the Atlantic. The US version of the Lewis Gun was made by Savage, and had been manufactured here since before the US entered the war.

My late father-in-law was a WWI pilot (though the war ended before he made it to France) and his letters of that time indicated that all of his training experience was with the Lewis Gun (he wrote some fairly detailed letters home). I even have his instruction manual for the Lewis Gun, which is well-used and not in very good condition. Of course, many different MGs in other calibers were used on French, British, and German aircraft.

By the way, the air and ground versions of the Lewis Gun were mechanically the same, but the air version had no wooden buttstock or barrel radiator jacket, and used a larger-capacity magazine.


#13

Published references have suggested that the comprehensive crimping of the primers in these cartridges was due a tendency of the Marlin aircraft gun to blown primers. Further, the Marlin being a fixed synchronized MG would have proven a more difficult challenge in jam clearing. This ammunition was also used in the flexibly-mounted Lewis guns used by observers in multi-seat planes. Jack


#14

Many thanks photo above is what I have with the 18,thank you for all the info.I’m hooked great History,kinda a cool thing, its not like bringing a 6 foot clock home and having the wife roll her eyes. I can hide these in plan site for a while.


#15

THe “Marlin gun” referred to is the 1914 updated version of John M. Browning’s Model 1895 “Potato Digger” gun which had been offered in various calibers over the years. The 1914 version added cooling fins to the barrel and shortened the arc of the flapper that transmits the energy of the gas tapped from the barrel at mid-point to work the action.


#16

Not actually an ammunition-related item, the improved version of the Colt 1895 that was used for both aircraft and tanks during WWI was the Marlin (or Marlin-Rockwell) M1917 and M1918. The main modification made was the elimination of the swinging lever (potato digger) which was replaced with a linear operating system, as the swinging lever was not practical in the confined spaces of tanks and aircraft. From all accounts, this improvement was not nearly as simple an engineering project as it would seem to be. The old-style swinging lever version did see considerable action as a ground gun during WWI by several armies (but not the US Army), and was an “Official” MG of Canada during the early part of the war. It had a disturbing tendency to overheat quickly.

I have seen only one of the Marlin aircraft/tank guns, and that was in a museum in Cleveland in the mid-1960s. I got to play with it for a few minutes before a museum guard ran me off (it was out in the open where anyone could touch it, and there were no “Do Not Touch” signs around). It seemed to be in operable condition. I have read that the Marlin MG was used in French aircraft, and maybe by other countries. I don’t know how much use the Marlin got in US-made aircraft but there was only a small number of those that ever saw combat anyway. Undoubtedly it was used by US pilots flying a variety of foreign aircraft such as Spads and Nieuports.


#17

The 1917 Marlin MG of which Dennis writes is the one I meant. It was a re-engineering of the original potato digger by Carl Swebilius of Marlin and replaced the Vickers as the standard fixed MG for US aircraft late in the war. While made in considerable numbers, its service life was brief, being replaced by the M1918M1 and M1919 Browning MGs after the war. Both these latter guns were lightened and synchronized high ROF developments of the M1917 water-cooled gun. Jack


#18

New Guy

Here are 4 different Cal .30 cartridges with the ring crimp. This gives you something to look for. You are now a collector. Some big time collections started with just one cartridge. :)


#19

The Marlin MG was supplied in large numbers to Britain in 1940 and I believe the British contract 30-06 was made with the ring crimp to accomodate these guns.


#20

Evening Ray
Thank you for the photos, I spent two hours trying to figure out what some of these were,I’ve been buying Ammo Boxes to display in my shop when I get it ramped up toward 2013, now realize being a restoration guy , build some display cabinets for all these shells. That and seeing how I got into gunsmithing for extra money, I pretty much do Antique Restorations, and was asked to make gun stocks.Now applying for FFL, they tell me its still part of a gun so I need FFL if I charge for my work, well long story short I bought and started on a 1873 and a few others, so If I have to get FFL, I might as well do it all. Having alot of fun and gunsmithing is much easyier, then playing with Cuckoo clocks and I enjoy this more.