Polish 1934 ammo pack


#1

I have a pack with the following on it (scanner just died, will add photo later).
Z.A. “POCISK” S.A.
7.92 mm naboje "Sc"
Partja 26
Data elaboracji 3 Marz 1934
I understand that the factory was a Polish-French enterprise which got nationalized. Who designed this box? It has a rather unusual folding design and a couple of nice orange separating inserts (I guess to reduce friction between two 5 round stripper clips inside).


#2

Photo please


#3

Here is the photo. There are 2 five round clips inside. The box has an interesting packaging design internally (so you cannot see what I mean). I am curious if it is a native Polish design. Mostly ammo has the cheapest and most banal packaging (or even wrapping).


#4

This is a typical 15 round box for the Polish 7.9 boat tail ball- German sS type. Label is typical for this. Can you photo the inside? It should have 15 rounds without clips. I have never seen a Polish packet marked for clips of with clips inside. I would like to see the inside,headstamps,and clip marking if possible. This is not the standard contents for this box and label- which I have also in various months of loading.


#5

Here is the headstamp. You are probably right, inside there were 2 shiny stripper clips with 8 rounds like in the photo and two FN 40 green tipped rounds (AP?). This is, by the way, is a flat bed scan with a lid open. Thanks to whomever suggested this method instead of taking a photo. Much easier.


#6

This is the boat tail ball which goes to the box.The Poles colored their label ink the same as the primer color on many types of rounds. The FN does not belong in there.


#7

Yes, it’s standard pack for Polish 7,92 Mauser ammo.
Why do you think the factory was Polish-French enterprise? It was exclusively Polish factory:
Z.A. - Zaklady Amunicyjne (Ammunition Factory) “Pocisk” (“Bullet”)
7,92 naboje SC ( 7,92 cartridges SC") SC- means: spiczasty ciezki (pointed and heavy), in other words cartridge for machine guns
Partja 26 - batch No 26
Data elaboracji - date of elaboration

green color means the ammo for machine gun (for example standard cartridge for Mauser 7,92 has had red border)

PK it’s abbreviation P(ocis)K - the name of factory
34 - 1934 year of manufacturing
67 it’s percent of copper in brass
DZ means Dziedzice - steel mill factory

Wood boxes for 7, 92 ammo had also color symbol. Here you are the box for this type of ammo:


Best Regards


#8

In my collection there is a Polish box with clips.
Tried to made a scan of it.
The ammo was found by the German in WW2, and they made a label on top.

Rgds,
Dutch


#9

I went to a web site called cruffler.com/trivia-January02.html. In this web site it says: As the Polish treasury between the wars was in a perpetual state of fiscal crisis and the state run factories were not achieving the volume of ammunition production desired, private investment and contracting were encouraged. As a result, a commercial organization with both Polish and French investors called Zaklady Amunicyjne, Pocisk, Spolka Akcyjna (Corporation for the Manufacture of Ammunition) was created. This company, generally known as Pocisk SA, began to produce ammunition, using machinery purchased from Hirtenberger of Austria. That is the reason for me to write “Polish-French”, but the web site may be wrong.


#10

Generally agree, but I have never heard about French connections. “S.A. -Spolka Akcyjna” means joint-stock company and it’s possible some shares in early years ( Z.A. Pocisk were established in July 1919) have Frenchmen but in compliance with the law 75 % of shares must have in Polish hands.
They began initially to produce Mannlicher ammunition using Hirtenberger Patronnen-und Z


#11

A very nice thread on Polish 7,9 x 57 ammunition, with great input from Poland - xyxy. Thank you. I only partially disagree with one thing. The heavy ball load is described as “machine gun ammunition.” Since Poland manufactured both the type “S” (light ball) and the type s.S." (heravy ball) simultaneously longer than did the Germans (German “S” ball is not terribly common with dates after WWI), it is quite possible that the Polish military used the type s.S. Heavy Ball rounds primarily for machine guns. However, they are also intended for rifles. Poland, like Czechoslovakia and other countries, copied the German primer seal colors - black for type S and green for type s.S. and the colors denote that rather than indicating weapons use. Again, this is only partial disagreement, as I certainly am not as qualified as xyxy to judge the actual way in which Poland used these two loads.

It might be good to add here that a black PA on German 7.9 ammunition was not exclusive to Type S ball. This color PA was also used on P.m.K. rounds and B-Patronen incendiary cartridges.


#12

[quote=“Dutch”]In my collection there is a Polish box with clips.
Tried to made a scan of it.
The ammo was found by the German in WW2, and they made a label on top.

Rgds,
Dutch[/quote]

How many cartridges in side? German or Polish made clips ?


#13

The company code from the clip is not familiar to me.
It looks like there are two characters on one spot.
The German label say; 7,9 Patr.


#14

About POCISK S.A., I made, when in Poland some investigations and can conclude by the following:

The company was founded in Warsaw July 25, 1919. The assetts came from:

-Polish State funds,
-private funds from Fritz Mandl (Austria), the owner of Hirtenberger Patronenfabrik,
-French private funds.

for a total value of 40 millions austrian crowns, as the local money,the zloty, had not yet assumed a stable fiduciary status.

From 1921, POCISK S.A. began to work on two independant branches:

-a cartridge machine factory, in Praga, a suburb of Warsaw,
-an ammunition factory in Rembertow, a western suburb of the same city, where ammo components were made, and also complete cartridges loaded.
The facility was also manufacturing explosives, primers and 47 to 155 mm calibre artillery shells.

The machines had been bought from Austria, and the first calibre of small arms ammunition produced was the 8x50R M.95 Mannlicher. When the weapons inherited from the austro-hungarian army were phased out, these ammo were replaced on the production lines by the 8x50R French (Lebel) M.1886, for the weapons delivered by the French, which were in use officially until 1933, and of course for the new Polish regulation calibre, the 7,92x57 Mauser.
Remaining stocks of Mannlicher cartridges were sold with their weapons to Romania, in a deal concerning the exchange delivery of French 8 mm Mle 1886 D(a.m.) ammo held by the Romanians.

POCISK made also pistol cartridges in .25 and 32 ACP. and shotshells in 12, 16 and 20 Ga.
The shotshells were loaded in a subsidiary in Boryszew, first with German (Rottweil) imported powders, later on with locally made ones. The brand names were NORMAL, POCISK and LUXUS.
Rimfires cartridges were also made, alongside with n


#15

From this box unopened from a complete crate, the 3 strippers are with different markings.
Can a Polish friend identify the makers ?

Thanks

JF



#16

Does this label say anything about the clips being inside ?


#17

[quote=“JohnMoss”]A very nice thread on Polish 7,9 x 57 ammunition, with great input from Poland - xyxy. Thank you. I only partially disagree with one thing. The heavy ball load is described as “machine gun ammunition.” Since Poland manufactured both the type “S” (light ball) and the type s.S." (heravy ball) simultaneously longer than did the Germans (German “S” ball is not terribly common with dates after WWI), it is quite possible that the Polish military used the type s.S. Heavy Ball rounds primarily for machine guns. However, they are also intended for rifles. Poland, like Czechoslovakia and other countries, copied the German primer seal colors - black for type S and green for type s.S. and the colors denote that rather than indicating weapons use. Again, this is only partial disagreement, as I certainly am not as qualified as xyxy to judge the actual way in which Poland used these two loads.

It might be good to add here that a black PA on German 7.9 ammunition was not exclusive to Type S ball. This color PA was also used on P.m.K. rounds and B-Patronen incendiary cartridges.[/quote] THE LATEST BOX DATE WHICH I HAVE IS 1937 FOR THE S BALL POLISH.


#18

[quote=“JFL”]From this box unopened from a complete crate, the 3 strippers are with different markings.
Can a Polish friend identify the makers ?

Thanks

JF
[/quote]

  1. Polish - Wojskowa Wytw

#19

I don’t want to to create the new thread, so continue here. I just purchased extremely rare box with Polish 7,92 x 57 ammo, called “PS” for aircraft machine guns marked: “red tracer”. Does anyone have it in his collection?