Polish 7.62x54R variations - Help needed


#1

Hello,

I would like your help to know all the variation of the 7.62x54R produced in Poland.

I’m aware of the following variations:

1908/30 type version
LPS
T46 tracer
Blank
Dummy
High Pressure test load.

I’ve heard of the B32 API version but I have no confirm of that and the same for the sniper 7N1 version.

Could someone tell me all the variation produced and in production and their Polish designation/nomenclature?

I’m only aware of the plant 21 (fromer PFA and circle 21) and 343 that produced these ammos, But I saw metal packages marked also with the 361 plant code, which I ignore to what plant correspond. If someone could tell me more on these plants I would appreciate.

Thanks in advance


#2

Alb,

Welcome to the IAA Forum.

Here are 2 websites that may be of some help to you: mosinnagant.net/i3tro4.asp.

Brian


#3

Thank you Brian,

I know these sites and the variations mentioned, that are the ones I have listed.

I found, on other sites the 7N1 and the B32 as polish made cartridges and I wanted a confirm plus a possible list of other “forgot” variations, and the original polish designation for all the cartridges.

Regards
Alberto


#4

According to Franczyk Poland made:
LPS
L
D
T-46
B-32
BZT
PZ
VD
UZ
Short range (recent development)
Blank
Dummy
There is no mention of the 7N1 and I also have never seen one.

Factory #361 is “Zakłady Produkcji Specjalnej sp. z o.o.” of Pionki. They do not produce any 7.62x54R. If you have found the code on a tin or box then it is the lot number of the used propellant.


#5

Thank you so much EOD.

Any way to know the Polish designation for each cartridge?


#6

The Poles used basically the same system as the Russians, just with the Polish/Latin transliteration.
Means:
“VD” in English is the “WD” in Polish

Others which do not really transliterate from Russian:
Blanks are:
“UCZ” with additinal wording “CWICZEBNE” (in Polish also referred to as “slepy”).

Dummies are:
“SZKOLNY”

Ballistic standard are:
“WZORCOWE” and go in addition to the regarding projectile type.

All other designations are as given in the first posting as they are dicrect transliterations which also correspond with Enlish/Latin.

There is one “C” loading listed, which if my bad Polish did not betray me, is a Czechoslovak type but there I am not sure. Maybe it was the heavy projectile with iron core which normally would have been the “D”. Maybe somone who knows the subject can shed some more light onto this.


#7

Thank you.


#8

I would also like your input on the case type cariations.

ammunitions with steel laquered case were identified by the letters “St”

Copper washed cases were identified as “GZ”

I also found the nomenclature “ŁB” on copper washed steel cases.

Could you tell me the differences and the corresponding words for these codes?


#9

Some information on bimetal case designations here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=14268


#10

The letters “St” were only observed on early post war production and certainly followed the German WWII practice which was well known from the 7.9 production which took place in Poland from 1940-1945 (or 1944 depending how the Russians were approaching).

The Polish “GZ” is equal to the Russian “GZh” = iron case (means copper clad steel cases or brass washed steel cases).

The Polish “GS” is identical to the Russian “GS” = steel case (means laquered steel cases).

The Polish “GL” is identical to the Russian “GL” = brass case.

For the Polish “LB” I have no reference in the existing documentation. Can you show us images where this designation was applied? It could be that this is not related to the case material.


#11

First signatures on box was writen by polish symbols:

ŁB – łuska bimetalowa - bimetal case | later GŻ
ŁSt – łuska stalowa - steel case | later GS
ŁM – łuska mosiężna - brass case | later GL

later was replace by equal russian sign


#12

Great info! I was not aware they changed the official abbreviations at some point to match the Soviet system only later.


#13

You guys are simply great.

I’ll probably ask you more question on the other East-bloc 7.62x54r in the future.

The reason for these questions is that I’m studing the various variation of the East block 7.62x54r ammunition to learn more on these cartridges, since few ready informations are actually available on these variations.

Regards


#14

Its too bad that no one has translated the Russian book on the 7.62 x 54R cartridges, if I am not remembering about that book incorrectly. I bought one from my friend Fred Datig, kept it awhile, but I could not read a single word in it so I gave it to a dear friend of mine in France who occasionally takes part on this Forum. Maybe he will see this and check the book out to see if I am remembering the subject and language correctly? As I recall, it seemed to be a very good book, judging from illustrations. Or, perhaps EOD knows about this book since he is fluent in Russian, as well as German and English and…?


#15

I think you are talking about the “Russian 7.62-mm Rifle Cartridge” (translated) by R.N. Chumak.
This is “The book” on the 7.62x54R but it’s not the only one on that cartridge. I have another book on all the Russian-Soviet ammunitions. It’s quite schematic, ith no text but only pics and tech datas.
Quite useful.

these books cover only the Russian and Soviet variations on these cartridges.

That’s the reason for this topic and my future ones. I’m collecting datas and organizing my informations in order to obtain more detailed infos on these variations, sometimes understimated.

Detailed description of the finnish versions exist, but this is not my actual focus at the moment.


#16

That’s probably the book. Mine was not translated. I didn’t realize that the whole book dealt only with Russian versions. When I realized buying it was a mistake since I don’t read Russian at all, I gifted it to my friend in France.


#17

For those who wonder what book that is:

Chumak, R.N.: Russkij 7,62-mm vintovochnyj patron. St. Peterburg: Atlant 2007 ISBN 978-5-98655-019-0 (hope I got the transliteration right; by the way, in Russia its St. Peterburg, not St. Petersburg)
Even if you, like me, cannot read Russian, I think anyone interested in Russian 7.62x54R will profit from it, due to excellent drawings, photographs and tables. It is indeed a BIG loss that no translated edition exists.